Getting a good flood on the auto?

[Prosperi-Tees]

Im having issues getting a good flood. I get a good flood with colors but my whites do not flood well. Am I putting to much in the screen? I think it doesnt drop off the squeegee so that the floodbar can do its thing. I still get a good print but it won't flood like the colors where it rolls forward. Im using Rutland Street Fighter. Any suggestions?

[GaryG]

The viscosity and rheology is different with the
base whites, not as viscous (runny).
Slow flood down some. But if ok w/ 2 hits- ok.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I have slowed it way down and it only improves slightly. I just think it's the ink just not flopping off the squeegee at the end of the stroke.

[gtmfg]

We always had that issue with rutland SF cotton white. Awesome price but I ended up changing to Union premium cotton because it was creamy and flooded better.   

[Lizard]

Sounds like you don't have enough ink in the screen. If you're still having issues after that you can add a Very Small amount of curable reducer to it. Some buckets of white are just a little thick but that's a great ink.

[gtmfg]

The last time we used SF Cotton White you could load the screen up and the ink would just stick between the flood and squeegee. I'm not much for adding additives. I feel like it's hard enough keeping the press turning.

[Prosperi-Tees]

The last time we used SF Cotton White you could load the screen up and the ink would just stick between the flood and squeegee. I'm not much for adding additives. I feel like it's hard enough keeping the press turning.

Yup that's exactly what's happening.

[gtmfg]

I do think the consistency varies quite a bit in Rutland whites. We been running through 2  5's a week of Snap and last week we had a bucket from hell. Stuff wouldn't flood and I'd have to double stroke the first white on a 110. Slowed us way down.

[alan802]

Sounds like the ink is very short bodied if it's sticking and climbing the squeegee.  Rather than add curable reducer (I think that stuff should not be used very often) I'd add halftone/process base or if you have a longer bodied white on the shelf, like a poly white of some sort.  Add that to the short bodied white and you'll get much better results than adding reducer.  The white ink manufacturers have all started making the white inks so short bodied and then the longer bodied inks have their own issues. 

[Inkworks]

If you're doing a hard flood to fill the screen then you need the ink to release from the squeegee so the floodbar can do it's job. If you're just using a flood stroke to get the ink to the front of the screen, then you're just as good having a bead of ink stuck to the squeegee. if it's printing okay, don't worry about it, just make sure you don't run out.

[Lizard]

Sounds like the ink is very short bodied if it's sticking and climbing the squeegee.  Rather than add curable reducer (I think that stuff should not be used very often) I'd add halftone/process base or if you have a longer bodied white on the shelf, like a poly white of some sort.  Add that to the short bodied white and you'll get much better results than adding reducer.  The white ink manufacturers have all started making the white inks so short bodied and then the longer bodied inks have their own issues.

Please elaborate. A teaspoon of curable reducer will change the flow characteristics of the ink considerably without changing opacity. It would take much more halftone base to achieve the same results in my opinion with much reduced opacity.

[ScreenFoo]

I'm on the same page with Alan on that one.  It seems as if making the ink less 'sticky' with white can be more important than reducing the viscosity, if that makes sense.  Seems like an equivalent small amount of HT base as you'd use reducer makes most inks print more easily.

I'd definitely try it out if you haven't, a quart of base is pretty cheap. 

[alan802]

Sounds like the ink is very short bodied if it's sticking and climbing the squeegee.  Rather than add curable reducer (I think that stuff should not be used very often) I'd add halftone/process base or if you have a longer bodied white on the shelf, like a poly white of some sort.  Add that to the short bodied white and you'll get much better results than adding reducer.  The white ink manufacturers have all started making the white inks so short bodied and then the longer bodied inks have their own issues.

Please elaborate. A teaspoon of curable reducer will change the flow characteristics of the ink considerably without changing opacity. It would take much more halftone base to achieve the same results in my opinion with much reduced opacity.

I'd argue that adding anything with that much plasticizer in it is bad since the ink is likely close to it's max already.  I haven't had any issues with having to add so much halftone base to any ink to reduce it's opacity nor have I tested both additives side by side.  There are so many things I like to know for myself and learn everything about, but when it comes to the use of curable reducer I listen to those who tell me it's bad and to use halftone base and that's honestly the reason why we don't use curable reducer.  When time permits I'll learn more about the chemistry in our inks but for now, I trust the advice from a few others so I can't elaborate like I could on other subjects.  This is just a matter of "trust in JC" for me.

I think the real problem with white inks not working properly for us is a lack of stirring the ink properly before using it.  In a perfect world, I'd have my white ink in an ink mixer turning slowly all day long.  I don't think many shops stir their ink enough and doing it before every single print run would ensure the ink will perform at it's best.  I bet most ink is stirred for about 5-10 seconds, once a day at most when it really should be done for several minutes every hour or so throughout the day.  I'd bet that if you worked your ink over thoroughly before you use it that it would perform better than adding curable reducer.  I personally think the main reason the ink works better after adding curable reducer is the actual act of stirring the reducer into the ink works the ink into it's optimum performance level.

[Lizard]

Sounds like the ink is very short bodied if it's sticking and climbing the squeegee.  Rather than add curable reducer (I think that stuff should not be used very often) I'd add halftone/process base or if you have a longer bodied white on the shelf, like a poly white of some sort.  Add that to the short bodied white and you'll get much better results than adding reducer.  The white ink manufacturers have all started making the white inks so short bodied and then the longer bodied inks have their own issues.

Please elaborate. A teaspoon of curable reducer will change the flow characteristics of the ink considerably without changing opacity. It would take much more halftone base to achieve the same results in my opinion with much reduced opacity.

I'd argue that adding anything with that much plasticizer in it is bad since the ink is likely close to it's max already.  I haven't had any issues with having to add so much halftone base to any ink to reduce it's opacity nor have I tested both additives side by side.  There are so many things I like to know for myself and learn everything about, but when it comes to the use of curable reducer I listen to those who tell me it's bad and to use halftone base and that's honestly the reason why we don't use curable reducer.  When time permits I'll learn more about the chemistry in our inks but for now, I trust the advice from a few others so I can't elaborate like I could on other subjects.  This is just a matter of "trust in JC" for me.

I think the real problem with white inks not working properly for us is a lack of stirring the ink properly before using it.  In a perfect world, I'd have my white ink in an ink mixer turning slowly all day long.  I don't think many shops stir their ink enough and doing it before every single print run would ensure the ink will perform at it's best.  I bet most ink is stirred for about 5-10 seconds, once a day at most when it really should be done for several minutes every hour or so throughout the day.  I'd bet that if you worked your ink over thoroughly before you use it that it would perform better than adding curable reducer.  I personally think the main reason the ink works better after adding curable reducer is the actual act of stirring the reducer into the ink works the ink into it's optimum performance level.

I don't know much about the chemistry of inks but I have asked my ink guy (the manufacturer rep, not a reseller rep) in the past "what's the difference in reducer (which is the same as chino base) primer clear and halftone base (some call it shape").  His response was the viscosity of each.  Now I'm sure there is more to it than that but I can attest they all cure properly. I also know all the major ink manufacturers recommend curable reducer as the modifier of choice for their whites (excluding mixing whites).  With all that said I would not recommend using reducer for a wet on wet ink.  Only for the base screen and maybe highlight if printing last. I will also give the halftone base a shot in my base white, you got me curious.

[jvanick]

on the wilflex performance inks, they recommend a product called Viscosity Buster...

we use that with the perf-white and it works great... add in about 2-3% and we're good to go with double bevels... without adding it, we have to add pressure...  we've tried it with their HO inks and it works great too.