Wow, Screen Tape Costs!!!

[inkman996]

From what the sales reps and other people have told me, I'd need to be running 50 screens/day at a minimum for the DTS to begin to make sense. I've run the numbers for myself as well, and we're going to have to be processing a lot more work before we can buy a 50K DTS. Now, if the cost could be cut in about half we'd be looking at buying one tomorrow!

Same scenario here. We do not run 50 screens a day, maybe half of that on the busiest day and more like ten as an average. We are so far from realizing a 5 year or less ROI on one of those machines. I see a second auto installed long before a CTS. To be honest I cannot see a single auto supporting 50 screens a day on average. Imagine ten jobs at ten screens a piece or 20 jobs at 5 screens a piece all on one press phew! have fun with that.

[alan802]

From what the sales reps and other people have told me, I'd need to be running 50 screens/day at a minimum for the DTS to begin to make sense. I've run the numbers for myself as well, and we're going to have to be processing a lot more work before we can buy a 50K DTS. Now, if the cost could be cut in about half we'd be looking at buying one tomorrow!

I've been told the same thing, well, similar numbers close to 40 screens per day.  If we didn't gang up most of our images we'd be over the 40 threshold but we are steady around 20 on a slow day, 30 on a busy day.  One day a few weeks ago we topped 40 in a day for the first time ever, I was stoked until I had to help reclaim them.  I put 10 brand new screens into production last week and it doesn't feel like I did any.  We never have enough.  I've got 140 good screens right now but I feel like we need at least 200 usable screens right now.

[tonypep]

Although this thread has derailed somewhat, the ROI on CTS does not pan out for us either. I can definitely see how it can for others and it would be cool to have; the #s don't crunch. Everyones different. Basing it on film and tape does not make sense to me; its time and quick press setup, less pinholes etc.

[Socalfmf]

again film and tape are one item in the puzzle..we are making it more on the set ups, not taping regi marks, no pinholes, ect.  that is where we are making the ROI so fast. 

I challenged each of you to do a time study of the course of 1 day on how long it takes to just tape up regi marks on all the jobs you do in a normal day.  I bet it is close to 25-30 min.  that is 200-400 shirts.  what the profit on 200-400 shirts? 

start doing math like that and you will see the ROI

again this is just for taping regi marks...

[inkman996]

again film and tape are one item in the puzzle..we are making it more on the set ups, not taping regi marks, no pinholes, ect.  that is where we are making the ROI so fast. 

I challenged each of you to do a time study of the course of 1 day on how long it takes to just tape up regi marks on all the jobs you do in a normal day.  I bet it is close to 25-30 min.  that is 200-400 shirts.  what the profit on 200-400 shirts? 

start doing math like that and you will see the ROI

again this is just for taping regi marks...

The problem with your challenge and this has been pointed out and not addressed by you in the past is this.

In our shop and i would assume the majority of shops saving 20 to 30 minutes a day does not equal more work magically appearing out of the sky. If we had more printing than we could handle with in a weeks time then we would have to buy another press and hire help. We are not at that stage and that means a CTS would not actually save us any money with ROI because a CTS is not generating more work for us.

For the shops spinning their presses non stop all day then yes it makes huge sense to start searching for time savings. Its pretty basic thinking.

Sam before you got the CTS were you turning print jobs away because your 8 color DB and film printing was unable to keep up with the demand? I am just curious, I know a DB has limits on how much it can print. Post CTS are you now actually printing more work that you do not have to turn down because the CTS is gaining you enough time to print more? Be honest with your answer, did you pick up more work after your CTS that you previously would not do?

[Mr Tees!!]

again film and tape are one item in the puzzle..we are making it more on the set ups, not taping regi marks, no pinholes, ect.  that is where we are making the ROI so fast. 

I challenged each of you to do a time study of the course of 1 day on how long it takes to just tape up regi marks on all the jobs you do in a normal day.  I bet it is close to 25-30 min.  that is 200-400 shirts.  what the profit on 200-400 shirts? 

start doing math like that and you will see the ROI

again this is just for taping regi marks...

True in concept, but a false ROI unless you are ACTUALLY FILLING THAT MADE UP TIME WITH PRINTNG. If you were turning away work because you spent too much time taping film and regi's, then im sellin my equipment and workin for you.

Either way, turning the subject from screen frame tape to scotch tape just to try to have a reason to be right and call someone a hypocrite is pretty uncool, and kind of insulting to our intelligence if you ask me.

[Socalfmf]

Mike

yes and no...we now can get that work done faster which mean more work through which means we can take more work.  I understand what you are asking, but if you get the work done faster, you get more revenue.  but also faster work means you can take those RUSH jobs and charge a premium and earn new customers.

we were not necessarily turning work away, but now we can take more work and do it in a shorter timeframe which seems to be the norm in todays world.

[Socalfmf]

Tees...no the problem is cost of something.  His tape consumption is not a big deal at 1% is it?  I think it is, but then again you apply it somewhere else ( ie ROI on a machine it is stupid)

this is about making money.  I commend Alan for looking at costs since most people do not know their true costs.  Maybe I overthink costs and systems but I can tell you we grow between 20-40% a year and my mentor is great and I am looking at all costs right now and how those costs and systems affect my bottom line.  I know if is can save 50 bucks 100 times a year that is real money.  money going into my pocket or to buy lunch or to give a bonus sometime during the year.  we have some great systems in place within our business and we fine tuning them to make them even better.

[Mr Tees!!]

Tees...no the problem is cost of something.  His tape consumption is not a big deal at 1% is it?  I think it is, but then again you apply it somewhere else ( ie ROI on a machine it is stupid)

this is about making money.  I commend Alan for looking at costs since most people do not know their true costs.  Maybe I overthink costs and systems but I can tell you we grow between 20-40% a year and my mentor is great and I am looking at all costs right now and how those costs and systems affect my bottom line.  I know if is can save 50 bucks 100 times a year that is real money.  money going into my pocket or to buy lunch or to give a bonus sometime during the year.  we have some great systems in place within our business and we fine tuning them to make them even better.

...whether or not someone wants to apply the $25 cost of scotch tape toward ROI on a CTS is irrelevant here, if you wanna great, if not great. But this thread was about frame tape (a substantially higher-cost expendible,BTW), until YOU tried to make it about scotch tape in an attempt to belittle someone else in reference to a thread from umpteen months ago. Am I the only one kinda turned off by that here, really? Is that what the boards are about now? I don't get it.

[inkman996]

Mike

yes and no...we now can get that work done faster which mean more work through which means we can take more work.  I understand what you are asking, but if you get the work done faster, you get more revenue.  but also faster work means you can take those RUSH jobs and charge a premium and earn new customers.

we were not necessarily turning work away, but now we can take more work and do it in a shorter timeframe which seems to be the norm in todays world.

That theory only applies if the work is out there and going to be available to you. This is not possible for everyone in the business.

Getting work done faster only earns you more revenue if you can either fill your labors time with other work or  cut their hours.

No one is arguing with you about saving a few bucks, its fine and dandy we all prefer to save money. But at the end of the day what some will not say is claiming an ROI in less than a year on a supporting piece of equipment that is supporting a diamond back sounds like BS. Everyone here can run numbers as well as you and no one to my knowledge can present numbers that say your ROI on a diamond back one shift is possible.

I think spending 50K on a new press which actually produces shirts makes a lot more sense in the long run than a CTS. Having two presses at or close to capacity brings in the benefit of CTS technology and a reasonable ROI.

Your numbers which you have refused to back up with data insults some peoples intelligence, there is people here smarter than you but you continue to insult them with your wild numbers and not back them up. 

[inkman996]

Tees...no the problem is cost of something.  His tape consumption is not a big deal at 1% is it?  I think it is, but then again you apply it somewhere else ( ie ROI on a machine it is stupid)

this is about making money.  I commend Alan for looking at costs since most people do not know their true costs.  Maybe I overthink costs and systems but I can tell you we grow between 20-40% a year and my mentor is great and I am looking at all costs right now and how those costs and systems affect my bottom line.  I know if is can save 50 bucks 100 times a year that is real money.  money going into my pocket or to buy lunch or to give a bonus sometime during the year.  we have some great systems in place within our business and we fine tuning them to make them even better.

Again Sam the 1% is about frame tape not scotch tape. I dare you to find any where in this thread where someone said they spend 1% of their sales on scotch tape.

[tonypep]

Of course this is all about making money but, more specifically, about identifying constraints and how best to apply resources ($$) to minimize them. For some, lack of work is the #1 constraint. In this case I would imagine that one would consider applying money to a more aggresive marketing and merchandising budget which would include trade shows (not screenprint shows), sales staff, etc. For others the constraint is poor planning and staging. No sense having the best of everthing if there is idle time due to lack of organization. Those dollars might best be applied to scheduling and/ or Production Manager. So if one has $50K to apply to process improvement the idea is to spend it in the way that that will result in the highest impact. CTS is an option and just that.
I know this is obvious but........

[Socalfmf]

Tony

I could not agree more...people often only look at the $$ being spent, not the money being lost by not doing something.

[GraphicDisorder]

IMO if everyone figured in the time savings not having to argue about DTS ROI they'd be able to afford the machine.  Just food for thought

[inkman996]

Tony great point you make there about a businesses #1 constraint and what it is. In our case our 1# constraint is lack of work. Not saying we are not doing well, we are doing great in fact. But at the end of the day we are not running all of our equipment at its full ability. Thats a goal we would love to reach and move on to expanding fro their. Sam makes a statement that people often look at money being spent versus money not being made. Where he comes up with this idea is beyond me, I would imagine everyone here is always looking for increasing sales. In fact there is by far more increasing sales posts than saving money posts. So his statement is flawed and actually just tailored to support his own arrogance against the rest of us.

Increasing sales in our shop is a huge topic and always first in how and what we can do to better the business. The problem is we want to generate more work of the type we want and not the type that can hurt us. We have been in contact with many large brokers that would not even talk to us unless we had two or more autos. I cannot tell you how many brokers turned us down because we do not have enough embroidery heads. Sure we could plot in some more equipment and have all that wonderful low as hell margin work but its not what we want.

To sum it up we have the equipment and systems to produce more product it is just a case of generating the type of sales we want as a mature business.