Wow, Screen Tape Costs!!!

[Mr Tees!!]

From another thread on the board.  hmmmmmm 



We think ROI will arrive somewhere around next fall or into 2015.

from Ron P in the DTS forum....look it up...so that makes it about 11-15 months?  hmmmmmm

guess I am not so full of crap afterall huh kids.

heres the whole post...

Hi Sam

Our ROI will be different as there are more moving parts to this puzzle than just this piece. The moving parts are too many to list - I'll mane a few....

Just one of the moving parts was proper screens for this. We spent about $25K on that alone (all during the the year). It has put us in a "no tape" arena. Just that savings, all by itself, saved us around $8-10K this year. No more film (BIG one) - 8-12 rolls a week - you add it up. There are more hard pieces of equipment on the way as well.

We think ROI will arrive somewhere around next fall or into 2015.

I'll keep everyone aware of our progress....

[bimmridder]

Here's a little gas for the fire

I am a partner in our business. Our company hasn't grown every years for twenty five years because I'm one of the owners...directly at least. My company grown because of constantly trying to become better, making more mistakes than you can imagine, and learning from them! Listening to mentors and rookies alike. Most importantly I think, is molding employees to be what we need.

[Socalfmf]

so Mike you are an owner now?

i never said i hate employees  i hate things they do but i dont hate them

and good night

[ebscreen]

Little further up that thread Ron says he does 300 screens a day. I'm not what you call a math genius, but I reckon that amounts to about ten shitloads of eight color jobs a day on that Diamondback of yours Sam.

[Mr Tees!!]

...I saw that after I posted  I have done a little reverse-engineering ROI math in my head, but this will hafta wait til the morning  I also still would like to hear specifics about tape usage 

[Inkworks]

really EB...I have always said that there is a difference  and if people take offense to that well too effin bad.  Mike and Allen try to act like they know what it is to be the owner ( which they are not have never been ) so they do not know what it is like. 

Crawl down off that cross man. I've met scads of owners that don't show the dedication Alan shows on almost every post. I also know a few select guys who put as much heart and soul into their jobs as any owner out there, I've got one working for me. He doesn't even need the money and yet beats me in the shop every day he works, and takes the job home with him every bit that I do.

Those cheap-shots are an incredibly small thing to do.

[Gilligan]

Oh yeah if the business folds an employee just goes and finds another job, while in the meantime an owner just lost most likely everything they had or might even lose what they don't have yet depending on how the business is set up and what is attached to said business. 

Are you saying you would lose everything you have if your business folds?

[gtmfg]

I don't think he's trying to say they don't have any less passion for what they do on a daily basis, just that there is difference between running a shop and owning a shop. This is my second venture, I was young and dumb on my first manufacturing business and failed 3 years into it. I'll tell you straight up loose everything you have plus a bunch of you parents money that believed in you and you'll know the difference between owning and not.

[GraphicDisorder]

You know what kind of people are really awesome? The kind that make underhanded insults at folks
and then get called on it and then start trying to explain away their insult in the first place. You didn't choose
the wrong words in a hurry, you intentionally tried to insult someone in a shady azz way. Man up.

That's how you have it in your head anyway.  If you want to believe that it doesn't shock me.  Unfortunately that doesn't make it true. 

We are all fully effing aware of the difference between an employee and an owner, don't insult our intelligence.
What I am not entirely sure of is what makes one a better person than another? If I had to judge from this
thread alone, the employees are kicking the owners asses in terms of being a decent human.

Where did I say that being a owner makes someone better than another, do you make this up as you go?  It doesn't.  It's a drastic different set of responsibilities though and STRESS.  Ive been clear, when you are a owner you have a lot of other things on your plate, if I could just focus on screen printing and those processes my life would be much more simple here at the shop.  Some of you have described your "owner's" involvement and that sounds nothing like my situation so I comment in context to MINE and many owners and employees ive met and seen in action.  There are exceptions to the rule of course.   

If you judge someone's ability to be a "decent human" from a drama thread on the internet then I find that interesting.  You don't know the first thing about me and what type of human and I am other than what I let you know on the internet.  Remember that.

Ya'll act like we're some jonny-come-lately around here. Like we've never met the kid that claimed he could
jump ten feet high and when asked to demonstrate resorted to obfuscation and politics and eventually insults.
Ain't nothing new. Neither is the kid that insults you then calls it something else. Totally lame. Weaksauce.

I certainly have been clear on this one as well.  I don't exactly believe Sam's numbers.  That doesn't change the fact that is works for his business and as noted here by other ACTUAL USERS the quality of life from a machine like that in a shop may be underestimated.  Those are the points ive made, I haven't defended his actual ROI numbers though. 

If you think I have a problem owning up to actual insults you are mistaken.  Truth is YOU just want everything I say to be an actual insult when much of it frankly isn't. 

[GraphicDisorder]

really EB...I have always said that there is a difference  and if people take offense to that well too effin bad.  Mike and Allen try to act like they know what it is to be the owner ( which they are not have never been ) so they do not know what it is like. 

Crawl down off that cross man. I've met scads of owners that don't show the dedication Alan shows on almost every post. I also know a few select guys who put as much heart and soul into their jobs as any owner out there, I've got one working for me. He doesn't even need the money and yet beats me in the shop every day he works, and takes the job home with him every bit that I do.

Those cheap-shots are an incredibly small thing to do.

For sure, but as a employee in my previous life I know I "thought" I knew what it would be like to be a "owner".  Boy was I wrong.  Have any of you considered it's insulting to have people who are not owners acting like they know what that's like?  That's not a "dig" at Alan or Mike at all in fact.  It's just a reality.  Alan and Mike are the cream of the crop I am sure as far as employee's go and they are a HUGE part of the business.  Some might even say MORE important than a owner.  But that doesn't change the fact that they do not at all know what it's like to be a owner unless they actually are one.  I have 6 employees here that are amazing people and employees, this shop does not work right with out them, at all.  They know this because I make it clear in communication and it PAY.  I assume Alan and Mike are both receiving that type of treatment as well. 

I think the point is that it's really easy to preach how awesome your processes are when all you do is screen print and work on the screen print processes.  That's not a insult as much as some want it to be either.  I've said it a few times now, if that's all I had to do I bet you id be a crap ton better at it myself.  That's not to minimize Alan or Mikes or anyone's work.  It's just a FACT that work is always more efficient when you can focus on just that.  When you start throwing Taxes, Payroll, this widget isn't working, come approve (every) embroidery file that is running, pay the bills, make a proof for 10 people today, the product in our store is wrong, the shipping software is down, the server isn't backing up, my email doesn't work, the phones are down, my monitor died, there's no hot water, it's cold in here, there's ice on the step, unlock the UPS door, rep is here, someone is here selling insurance, would you like some girl scout cookies, and so on and boy can it sure get in the way of actual "work" or "working on a process".   Trust me it isn't all roses being a "owner".  I am not the type running out early or showing up late.  I am here first, generally by 7am often before 6 and even sometimes before 5.  Because I am always trying to get ahead to help.  I am often the last person out of the building as well. I know many owners NOT like that.  Hell to be honest with you I could afford to replace myself and sit at home and collect a check.  This sounds amazing but id be bored in a week and id be back.  So I don't. 

[alan802]

From another thread on the board.  hmmmmmm 



We think ROI will arrive somewhere around next fall or into 2015.

from Ron P in the DTS forum....look it up...so that makes it about 11-15 months?  hmmmmmm

guess I am not so full of crap afterall huh kids.

Entry level auto, 12 months, 50K.  I bet Ron does more than 20 screens a day since he goes through 8-12 rolls of film A WEEK.  You didn't go through that much film in a YEAR and you want to hitch your hooptie to Ron's bus, that's funny as hell to me.  But I suppose you'll tell us that you are now doing 40 screens a week and you just landed a 500K piece job so your ROI will actually be 4 days.

And you said that you'd bet that I'd leave my job if I didn't get a paycheck...Do you care to make a wager on that and if so, go ahead and pay me right now because 09 was not good and there were months were we had to do without.  Man, I just don't know if you don't care to read but a few things that I type or if your just...well, I don't want to throw insults but I'm just about out of other things to say.  Thing is Sam, there is no way in hell you care more about your business than I do the one that I work in and if you do, then your obsessed and slightly off your rocker.  Plain and simple.  If you did even close to what I do on a daily basis then good for you man, you're a hard working SOB if you can keep up with me, but something tells me you wouldn't last a day in my shoes.  There's an arrogance about you that oozes out of your pores and I'd love to sit down with people that have worked for you and still work for you, that will be the measure of your success and how much you really do around Palomar. 

Oh, and I "owned" my first business when I was about 10 years old when you were probably still picking and eating your boogers and in the last 25 years I've somehow managed to rise to the top of whatever it is that I chose to do, and I've owned plenty along the way.  I don't take kindly to someone who obviously thinks he's better than others because he "owns" a business yet has to exagerate so many things he says on a forum so people will respect him.

Luckily we don't have to worry about not getting paid right now because we're doing pretty good.

[alan802]

And to clarify, if you think all I do is worry about screen printing stuff all day and fix only screen print related things then your reading comprehension is not so good or you aren't reading.  That's not my problem if you don't read replies and still try to argue that Mike and I just deal with one tiny section of the business.  I'm the mechanic, plumber, motivator, screen printer, production manager, job quoter, fixer of ALL THINGS UNDER BOTH BUILDINGS, and somehwere along the way I've managed to learn enough about screen printing to put out a crap load of awesome work, more I might add than the guys saying all I do is screen printing stuff all day.

[alan802]

I guess you guys will understand what I do when you reach our level of volume and wear the hats I wear. 

[inkman996]

really EB...I have always said that there is a difference  and if people take offense to that well too effin bad.  Mike and Allen try to act like they know what it is to be the owner ( which they are not have never been ) so they do not know what it is like. 

Crawl down off that cross man. I've met scads of owners that don't show the dedication Alan shows on almost every post. I also know a few select guys who put as much heart and soul into their jobs as any owner out there, I've got one working for me. He doesn't even need the money and yet beats me in the shop every day he works, and takes the job home with him every bit that I do.

Those cheap-shots are an incredibly small thing to do.

For sure, but as a employee in my previous life I know I "thought" I knew what it would be like to be a "owner".  Boy was I wrong.  Have any of you considered it's insulting to have people who are not owners acting like they know what that's like?  That's not a "dig" at Alan or Mike at all in fact.  It's just a reality.  Alan and Mike are the cream of the crop I am sure as far as employee's go and they are a HUGE part of the business.  Some might even say MORE important than a owner.  But that doesn't change the fact that they do not at all know what it's like to be a owner unless they actually are one.  I have 6 employees here that are amazing people and employees, this shop does not work right with out them, at all.  They know this because I make it clear in communication and it PAY.  I assume Alan and Mike are both receiving that type of treatment as well. 

I think the point is that it's really easy to preach how awesome your processes are when all you do is screen print and work on the screen print processes.  That's not a insult as much as some want it to be either.  I've said it a few times now, if that's all I had to do I bet you id be a crap ton better at it myself.  That's not to minimize Alan or Mikes or anyone's work.  It's just a FACT that work is always more efficient when you can focus on just that.  When you start throwing Taxes, Payroll, this widget isn't working, come approve (every) embroidery file that is running, pay the bills, make a proof for 10 people today, the product in our store is wrong, the shipping software is down, the server isn't backing up, my email doesn't work, the phones are down, my monitor died, there's no hot water, it's cold in here, there's ice on the step, unlock the UPS door, rep is here, someone is here selling insurance, would you like some girl scout cookies, and so on and boy can it sure get in the way of actual "work" or "working on a process".   Trust me it isn't all roses being a "owner".  I am not the type running out early or showing up late.  I am here first, generally by 7am often before 6 and even sometimes before 5.  Because I am always trying to get ahead to help.  I am often the last person out of the building as well. I know many owners NOT like that.  Hell to be honest with you I could afford to replace myself and sit at home and collect a check.  This sounds amazing but id be bored in a week and id be back.  So I don't.

Brandt I have already agreed there is a difference between an owner and what he does and what a manger does. I do not doubt it for one second. I see what the owner here does every day, we discuss all the time taxes, bills, fees, paper work paper work paper work and I can tell you I do not envy him for one second. Thats one of the many reasons I strive to take as much of the work load off of him as I can. Him as an owner invested his money and credit in to this business, I invested my personal time and life in to it. We both are invested in to the company but with different sacrifices. Fortunately we are an LLC so his liability is minimal unless he was negligent or has guaranteed any of his personal worth on the business.. I can tell you tho that is not the case. If the business failed he would be safe except for losing a job. This is not to diminish the sacrifice of an owner at all its just my way of saying if you make your business successful enough you can eventually be off the hook personally if things failed.

Whether i am ceam of the crop or not I do not know, I know the best I can offer is 100% effort. I am not as capable as Tony but with me I am as loyal as can be and think of this job as not just a job but a future and refuse to allow the company to stagnate.

Every single one of those things you listed in the second paragraph are actually what i do every day and then some. I am not just managing printing I am managing every single order that comes through here and i am also managing the building and every thing in it. These are all things the owner counts on me doing so he can concentrate on both sales and the financials. Your doing this stuff your self because you are still young in the business but judging from your success you will grow to the point where you will hire a production manager and you can work solely on your business. Trust me you will be greatly satisfied when the day comes where you can walk in to work and not have to worry about proofs, ink colors, toilets, and whatever crap.

BTW I make a salary my check is the same week after week. Yet I work a ten hour day five days a week. If I work the weekend it changes nothing. For instance I will be spending a long weekend here soon fixing a broken head on our 12 head. It does not benefit my pay check it benefits the company and in the long run it pays out. I take work home just about every day. I do not leave at 5 and forget this place it is just as much part of me as my children are.

Now for something a little more light hearted. This thread has brought out some of the best sayings I ever heard from Alan. Alan where you a stand up comedian in your previous life?

[GraphicDisorder]

And to clarify, if you think all I do is worry about screen printing stuff all day and fix only screen print related things then your reading comprehension is not so good or you aren't reading.  That's not my problem if you don't read replies and still try to argue that Mike and I just deal with one tiny section of the business.  I'm the mechanic, plumber, motivator, screen printer, production manager, job quoter, fixer of ALL THINGS UNDER BOTH BUILDINGS, and somehwere along the way I've managed to learn enough about screen printing to put out a crap load of awesome work, more I might add than the guys saying all I do is screen printing stuff all day.

Read em, again given all you've listed if that's all I had to do, id consider my life much simpler than what I do now and I didn't say screen printing was "tiny" section of the business.  Didn't even say it was easy.  It sounds fun, I actually admire it.  You think its a jab, its not at all.  It's a reality.  Your not running the complete business, you have a more focused level of involvement allowing you to excel at that.  It's clear your business is doing well because of your focus.  Be proud of it, its great.  But don't discount what the owners or people that are doing the work for the owners that you don't have to do are doing.  It's important work as well you know.