Wow, Screen Tape Costs!!!

[Gilligan]

Sam you could shut these guys up if you show all the numbers.  If you don't then IMO this will never end and we know some of these guys will bring it back up 1000 times just cause thats what some of really enjoy about the forum.  If you don't it also appears to them you are hiding something.

I disagree no one would bring any of the scotch tape gate except for Sam himself. Just go back to the second or third of this page and see where Sam jumped into this thread with a snotty comment about scotch tape.

So nobody has ever brought up DTS or Tape after the original incidents ever?   You sure?

Doesn't change my point really.  If he was to provide numbers (believable ones), it would shut these guys up.

Everyone would stop talking about Sam just the same as they would stop talking about me or you if we went away.

Sam, you brought up a 1% item and it seemed that you needed reminding that you were comparing it to a 1% of 1% item... eventually... it DOES become a moot point.

[Socalfmf]

but Brandt...according to them I took my ball and went home...you are damn right. 

there is a big difference between owning a business and working for someone who owns the business.  but then again what do I know.  and I will do a search but I did post the numbers once.

sam

[alan802]

He can "post" all the numbers he wants, he's sort of done that but just like you said Brandt, believable.  That's why there's an argument about this.  And in rebuttal, I've posted numbers that I'm sure we all recognize and are more than believable but it get's glossed over by the other side.  He can type numbers like an all air DB doing 720/hr, doesn't change the fact that he's likely got the only one in the world that will do that.  He can tell us his printer can do 7000 pieces by himself in 16 hours, that's averaging more for 16 hours than I can do for a 5 minute burst on a press twice as fast.  Those numbers would be just like me claiming we only spent $100 on film last year to make my ROI figures look better.  You guys know a shop our size couldn't do that. 

I'm pretty sure I'm not arguing with myself here B?  I guess I'd shut up about it if things were said that make sense.  The other DTS guys that have chimed in haven't said anything that I disagree with.  Funniest part of all of this is if DTS gave us a 1 year payback then I'd have two and I'd be selling them as well.

I posted some seriously padded numbers with our shop as the backdrop for DTS ROI and it's gotten no comments.  If 3.3 is good for your shop and it will help with morale or whatever, then knock yourself out.  It's your shop, your money to do what you will, I don't have a problem with it.  What I have a problem with is someone telling me that cowsh it is peanut butter and I need to make a sandwich out of it. 

I'd expect to hear every single comment from Danny's shop, they have two autos to feed, 1 million impressions a year, that makes all the sense in the world to go DTS.  But a shop that does 1/6 of that, 1-4 color jobs...

oh yeah and instead of printing film my artist is doing work that makes us more money vs. just printing film.  more value. 

So your artist sat there and stared at the film printer while it prints?  It's like arguing against using a dip tank because your guy only puts one screen in at a time and then sits there and watches it soak while doing nothing else.

If you've got that much time screwing around with film and film filing then you've got more problems than DTS can fix.  You're not printing 30-40 jobs a day Sam.  You've got one auto and hopefully no more than 3 guys dedicated to screen print production so how could this film be such a time waster?  Is anyone else that has one auto and prints half a dozen jobs a day having this film nightmare I keep reading about?  If you are don't be afraid to say yes, there are others here that can and will help you so you don't have to write a $50K check to fix it.

A serious question now and no BS involved and I'm trying to make a point while learning something.  How about the MHM guys, any of you considering DTS?  Have you ran the numbers to see if DTS is for you?  Or do you just want one and plan to buy one for other reasons?

And to clear things up, I don't have a problem with DTS.  I think it's the greatest thing since the retensionable frame and S thread mesh.  I WANT ONE DAMNIT!!!  I don't have a problem with any of you guys that have invested in them for your shops for whatever reason.  I don't have a problem with you buying one just because you can.  I have a problem with $50K, 12 months, 1 auto.  I have a problem with trying to convince other shops that size that they will see the same results.

[Socalfmf]

Alan

I have one question for you.  what is the average profit per job you do?

simple question...just the average?  200-300 bucks?

sam

[alan802]

but Brandt...according to them I took my ball and went home...you are damn right. 

there is a big difference between owning a business and working for someone who owns the business.  but then again what do I know.  and I will do a search but I did post the numbers once.

sam

I'll tell you what you know, it's not near as much as you think you do.  You continue to insult so many people with those idiotic comments about owning the business and just working in one.  That's just like if I were to tell those others who run smaller shops than me that they don't know what they're doing until they reach our size...total BS.  You don't have to own a shop to know how to run one, and just because you own one doesn't mean you know how to run one.  They're so independent from one another and one CAN have nothing to do with the other.  I don't own this business, but I promise you our production would run circles around yours and I'm the one that's responsible for that, not the owners.

[alan802]

Alan

I have one question for you.  what is the average profit per job you do?

simple question...just the average?  200-300 bucks?

sam

Let's go with $235 for shats and gaggles.  And if you come with an argument that if a shop goes DTS that they will get more work in the door it is pulling numbers out of thin air again.  I won't play that game.  We don't work on speculation and what if's.  What about the shop that has outside sales people and the one making the decision for DTS has nothing to do with sales?  If we bought a DTS machine it would literally have ZERO impact on our sales...ZERO.  Because in many shops, production has nothing to do with the sales department other than doing quality work and doing it on time to make customers happy and "hopefully" get more business in return.  You don't need DTS to do that.

[Socalfmf]

it has everything to do with it...you would not have a job if they did not own the company.  you can be replaced.  you are not responsible for the EPA, OSHA, Payroll ect.  i could go on and on. 

now answer the question of what your profit is per job. 

lets go with 200 bucks.

xtra job 200x50 x3 = $30,000  printing three extra jobs a week do to set ups.  we are really doing about 5- 6 xtra

artist 1 hr day film output  = $4,500

film costs  = $900.00

than start adding in the labor for faster screen making and rise out you have a 11-12 month ROI

so there ...that is my shop and our numbers 

that is the quick breakdown since noone wants to hear about tape. 

sam

[GraphicDisorder]

Sam you could shut these guys up if you show all the numbers.  If you don't then IMO this will never end and we know some of these guys will bring it back up 1000 times just cause thats what some of really enjoy about the forum.  If you don't it also appears to them you are hiding something.

I disagree no one would bring any of the scotch tape gate except for Sam himself. Just go back to the second or third of this page and see where Sam jumped into this thread with a snotty comment about scotch tape.

So nobody has ever brought up DTS or Tape after the original incidents ever?   You sure?

Doesn't change my point really.  If he was to provide numbers (believable ones), it would shut these guys up.

Everyone would stop talking about Sam just the same as they would stop talking about me or you if we went away.

If nobody acknowledged him at all I bet he would stop coming around and even if I am wrong he's just gonna be a dude talking to himself if ignored.  It's my opinion some of you like the drama though, thus the digs, insults, and bringing up stuff.  Hell id go so far to say some of you really miss DS days.  It's not like you guys are actually interested in what Sam is saying, you are interested in proving him wrong.  That's a big difference in my eyes.

[3Deep]

LOL I thought this was about the cost of tape, I work at my shop so I don't own a business, I don't print 700 shirts an hour, I don't run 40 to 100 screens a day, so sometimes when you guys toss those numbers out I kind of do the jaw dropping.  Reason say you have one auto a dam getty up and jam auto and you can print 700 shirts an hour that's 5,600 shirts, and the work day is only 8 hr's.  You have some working ass employee's and they are machine's at the press, being a little dot as I am I have a hard time with the numbers, I've been to large shops own by some very big names and I didn't see production like that even though they put out some product.  I'm like alot of you guys I would like to check out shops that are in production and just look, not talking with anyone just watch then maybe I say hell ya those numbers are true.  I do think the one thing we get caught up in is do those numbers happen 5 days a week 8 hours a day steady every month or is it something that happens so often.

Darryl
Ps I forgot to say I'm kinda laid back, but that's my style less drama to deal with here at my little shop wouldn't have it any other way.

[bimmridder]

Still not going to jump in the middle, but thought I should offer a little more information on our shop. We've been CTS for 8+ years. Through out that time we have always had three autos, but all have been upgraded to newer models over time. One manual press, but that doesn't count. Busy season we do 40-45 set ups in a ten hour shift on those three presses. Our jobs are not simple, from 3-7 colors average, but up to ten color. I keep seeing people talk about one and two color prints, but I still don't believe they exist . We did all the ROI on the first CTS we got, and it showed less than three years, which is kind of the target number here. I know it was much closer to two years. And I keep saying it. It was and still is the perfect fit for OUR company. But is is only one part of many systems. I know Alan wants one, but Alan knows it's not right for them, at least right now. Nothing wrong with that. I just keep saying over and over, it's what works best for us, and I honestly don't know what we would do without it.

[alan802]

it has everything to do with it...you would not have a job if they did not own the company.  you can be replaced.  you are not responsible for the EPA, OSHA, Payroll ect.  i could go on and on. 

now answer the question of what your profit is per job. 

lets go with 200 bucks.

xtra job 200x50 x3 = $30,000  printing three extra jobs a week do to set ups.  we are really doing about 5- 6 xtra

artist 1 hr day film output  = $4,500

film costs  = $900.00

than start adding in the labor for faster screen making and rise out you have a 11-12 month ROI

so there ...that is my shop and our numbers 

that is the quick breakdown since noone wants to hear about tape. 

sam

I put those "real" figures in my ROI I did yesterday.  You really think we can say that because you bought a DTS you landed 5-6 more jobs per week?   I've got an idea, what if we bought a DTS and our sales doubled?  Tripled? 

And do those DTS screens make themselves?  We do 12 more jobs per week now than we did 3 years ago, no DTS here.

[3Deep]

Bimm, same thing can be said about having a cell phone, tech makes things a little easier every year, it's do you really need it, does it help you can you justify it, it's your choice.

Darryl

[Socalfmf]

I am not saying we landed more of them I said we were outputting more of them which relates to more money being earned in the same time period...

I am also saying we can take those RUSH jobs because we know we can take them on and be able to do them and that adds even more money due to rush fees or repeat customers. 

sam

[GraphicDisorder]

I'll tell you what you know, it's not near as much as you think you do.  You continue to insult so many people with those idiotic comments about owning the business and just working in one.  That's just like if I were to tell those others who run smaller shops than me that they don't know what they're doing until they reach our size...total BS.  You don't have to own a shop to know how to run one, and just because you own one doesn't mean you know how to run one.  They're so independent from one another and one CAN have nothing to do with the other.  I don't own this business, but I promise you our production would run circles around yours and I'm the one that's responsible for that, not the owners.

I would say if all I had to worry about was screen printing and those processes my life would be exponentially easier.  I think most business owners would agree with that. 

[ebscreen]

Braggarts and liars when confronted with or asked for actual facts will jump to insults and innuendo instantly.
Since time eternal. Makes for a well massaged ego but a poor social life I would imagine.