Wow, Screen Tape Costs!!!

[alan802]

You quoted someone else but referred to us.

Only to say that you should be able to see that if your systems aren't tuned for what you have then changing the system to something completely different that doesn't require you to fix problems will mean you can see numbers better than your average shop that hasn't neglected certain systems.

Huh?

[Inkworks]

Just had to put a new roll of Scotch tape on the dispenser.... Damn! 

[Gilligan]

You quoted someone else but referred to us.

Only to say that you should be able to see that if your systems aren't tuned for what you have then changing the system to something completely different that doesn't require you to fix problems will mean you can see numbers better than your average shop that hasn't neglected certain systems.

Huh?

Are you telling me that run on sentence didn't come out of my head like it sounded?

I only used that quote and the referenced Brandt shop to point out that, if you don't have your system finely tuned, like you do Alan.  Then you are wasting time with carrier sheets and other prepress issues.  When that is the case then you will see large reductions of prepress labor due to implementing a DTS.  But that is only because your pre-DTS system was not worked out as good as it could or should have been.

If you have a tri-lock and use carrier sheets AND are sloppy then a DTS will be amazingly better as you will jump on press with no adjustments.  But if you made a FPU like yours and take just a bit of care in lining up your films before exposure then you won't see nearly the same jump in labor ROI.  Which is the situation you are facing.

You have your FPU/prepress system fine tuned very well, it takes VERY little time to get setup to burn.  Just seems like if Sam is able to crank out that much more work in a day due to prepress/setup labor savings then there was a severe flaw in his systems before hand.

I basically just butchered what Inkworks was saying.

Don't bother reading what I just posted... just go back and reference his post again.

[ScreenPrinter123]

I will tell you one thing, unless you have a very diligent art staff, you can get you a$$ kicked. You don't have film to check to make sure everything correct. You likely won't find out until on press. Can you afford that down time?

This - after thinking about this machine for the first time when it came out - was my initial thought. A two man operation here -- had messed up films printing out today - have had many messed up films printed out before. Unless there's some way to wipe the ink off without damaging the emulsion to be able to reprint on the screen, I like the idea of just throwing the film away and not needing another screen. Major time-sucker had we lost as many screens as we have film in our 8 years of existence.  Perhaps the screen is salvageable after a misprint has been done?

[ebscreen]

This - after thinking about this machine for the first time when it came out - was my initial thought. A two man operation here -- had messed up films printing out today - have had many messed up films printed out before. Unless there's some way to wipe the ink off without damaging the emulsion to be able to reprint on the screen, I like the idea of just throwing the film away and not needing another screen. Major time-sucker had we lost as many screens as we have film in our 8 years of existence.  Perhaps the screen is salvageable after a misprint has been done?

Just to be clear, you have two people in your whole operation?

I believe the man himself has stated that there is no salvaging a misprint screen.

[ScreenPrinter123]

This - after thinking about this machine for the first time when it came out - was my initial thought. A two man operation here -- had messed up films printing out today - have had many messed up films printed out before. Unless there's some way to wipe the ink off without damaging the emulsion to be able to reprint on the screen, I like the idea of just throwing the film away and not needing another screen. Major time-sucker had we lost as many screens as we have film in our 8 years of existence.  Perhaps the screen is salvageable after a misprint has been done?

Just to be clear, you have two people in your whole operation?

I believe the man himself has stated that there is no salvaging a misprint screen.

Yes sir.  2 man circus here.

[Gilligan]

And screen printing/embroidery isn't all they do.

They are like me and have their hands in other endeavors completely unrelated to this field.

They also have a ping pong table that gets very little use these days... probably a fishing pole or two in the same shape. :p

[ScreenPrinter123]

They also have a ping pong table that gets very little use these days... probably a fishing pole or two in the same shape. :p

Definitely below the belt.

Eb, perhaps that's the next step in its evolution: inks that can be wiped off if you notice an error before exposing. But I imagine it still wouldn't be noticed for most of us until the ink got pushed through if you missed it in the design phase/seps - easier to notice when holding films up to each other - don't see that being possible with screens of course.

[GraphicDisorder]

You quoted someone else but referred to us.

Only to say that you should be able to see that if your systems aren't tuned for what you have then changing the system to something completely different that doesn't require you to fix problems will mean you can see numbers better than your average shop that hasn't neglected certain systems.

Huh?

Are you telling me that run on sentence didn't come out of my head like it sounded?

I only used that quote and the referenced Brandt shop to point out that, if you don't have your system finely tuned, like you do Alan.  Then you are wasting time with carrier sheets and other prepress issues.  When that is the case then you will see large reductions of prepress labor due to implementing a DTS.  But that is only because your pre-DTS system was not worked out as good as it could or should have been.

I hadn't yet noticed much of any pre-press issues here other than other parts of our business getting in the way of actually doing them.  Just need to hire. 

If you have a tri-lock and use carrier sheets AND are sloppy then a DTS will be amazingly better as you will jump on press with no adjustments.  But if you made a FPU like yours and take just a bit of care in lining up your films before exposure then you won't see nearly the same jump in labor ROI.  Which is the situation you are facing.

We are not sloppy at all with our Tri-Lock or Carrier sheets.  We often require 1-3 test prints and off we go.  She does carrier sheets so fast that honestly I barely even catch her doing it so it's not a long process.  Are there better ways, I am sure of it.  But it's not a bottle neck at all for us right now.  You will have to forgive me for focusing on the largest problems first.  LOL

You have your FPU/prepress system fine tuned very well, it takes VERY little time to get setup to burn.  Just seems like if Sam is able to crank out that much more work in a day due to prepress/setup labor savings then there was a severe flaw in his systems before hand.

It takes very little for us to burn as far as actually doing the process, again it's simply getting to it that's the trouble.  Remember she has to digitize before she can sep, she has to order all the blanks for the week before she can sep as well.  Which sorta works as James will coat the screens for the week while she is doing that.  It all comes together well many days, but days where there is a disaster in embroidery with a file or ordering or whatever it may be it really can put a wrench in the system.  This is simply lack of hands for us currently.  I am sure the bottle neck will move after that and we will tackle that when it pops up. 

[ScreenPrinter123]

And screen printing/embroidery isn't all they do.

They are like me and have their hands in other endeavors completely unrelated to this field.

They also have a ping pong table that gets very little use these days... probably a fishing pole or two in the same shape. :p

Brian beat me to the low blow remark as I literally typed this all out and noticed he posted the same thing I was going to!

I did just get my boat running again after a few months hiatus, but where oh where is the time to actually use it.  Maybe a CTS will free up some time for fishing.  That would be the best ROI I know of. 

And I would imagine that knowing that you have one shot to output seps when going to screen vs. film would make one double check everything.  Though incorrectly outputted screens due to operator or machine error could be a big problem for operations where a couple people do everything and are usually reclaiming and coating almost exactly what they need for the next days work, unless they would just reclaim/expose more than they need.

Monetary ROI would not be there for us, but if it brought about an increased quality of life, efficiency, and prevented us from having to hire then I would not be opposed. 

Was told by a Lawson rep that they have a new machine coming out with the same printhead as the Express-Jet that will output a 12x18 image in around 2.5 minutes instead of Express-Jet's 40 seconds for around 18k.  This would be the ticket for smaller shops who do not need a screen a minute but would like the other advantages of CTS.

[GraphicDisorder]

Monetary ROI would not be there for us, but if it brought about an increased quality of life, efficiency, and prevented us from having to hire then I would not be opposed.

I like your thought process

[ebscreen]

Ahem.

Second press or a few more employees will be your fastest return on more fishing time.
I can guarantee it.


Except for some hot market stuff we haven't worked a weekend in years. That's a point of pride
as far as I'm concerned, to me my free time is exponentially more valuable than money.

[Gilligan]

Sorry Brandt, I was basing that on your own post.  Forgive me that fau paux if you will.

My shop is very much at capacity on screens.  We are a small shop, we don't have MORE time for screens.  In fact screens is very much what hold us back in doing more screen printing.

[Gilligan]

They also have a ping pong table that gets very little use these days... probably a fishing pole or two in the same shape. :p

Definitely below the belt.

Eb, perhaps that's the next step in its evolution: inks that can be wiped off if you notice an error before exposing. But I imagine it still wouldn't be noticed for most of us until the ink got pushed through if you missed it in the design phase/seps - easier to notice when holding films up to each other - don't see that being possible with screens of course.

Trust me my friends... We know the feeling.

I was just in your neck of the woods forum Thursday night to Monday afternoon... I haven't stopped since last Monday!  And now we got xmas stuff this weekend... It will never end.

[inkman996]

I will tell you one thing, unless you have a very diligent art staff, you can get you a$$ kicked. You don't have film to check to make sure everything correct. You likely won't find out until on press. Can you afford that down time? Or do you make your art department stronger? No, it sure as hell isn't all puppy dogs and rainbows. And it is a machine, it will go down. Can you fix it? (it won't call in sick though) It sure isn't for everyone. but is is right for us. I can't imagine our operation without it (them ) But is sure not a simple plug and play. It's a NEW system within your system, and it damn well better be right for you.

Dave I totally agree. We would have to be damn near perfect to make a CTS worth while otherwise a couple goofs up hare and there would negate any advantage of the machine. In our case the art department is me at least for the majority of art and all of the seps and films.madly tho that is not the only hat I wear, I have to manage embroidery as well and work with customers and deal with employees. I make mistakes on films and seps occasionally more than I could get away with on a CTS but bearable with film. The day we ever got a CTS is also the day we would need a full time artist.