Bare infrared heating panels? Source?

[hboothe]

Hello, all, I'm new to screen printing and I'm doing this as a hobby (so far...all 10 shirts I've done).  I made a couple of shirts for my son using heat transfer vinyl and my vinyl cutter which got his day care to ask me if I could print shirts for them for the staff (screen printing not heat-transfer) so I said, "yes", and set about learning how to do it.   

In the process I built a simple but effective printing press unit from the video by Stavros71 on YouTube and printed some shirts for my metal fab business (which is just me); white on dark blue.  I need to flash-cure my plastisol ink between coats to really get the white to pop and not look "distressed".

I looked at units and the cheapest I found was a 16x16 for about $350.  Since I've not made a dime on this endeavor yet, and may never, I hate to spend the $350+ for a flash-cure unit.  I started looking for the flash panels themselves.  You do not just "run down to Wal-mart" and buy these things.  I can fab the rest of the unit, but I need the heating panel itself.  Reading around online led me to this site and this post: http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=1344.0

Reading that (which is too old for me to feel comfortable replying to), several folks were able to buy direct from either Intek or BBC and post the prices.  I could not find prices at either Intek or BBC; they seem to want to sell either through their channels or to do an e-mail quote.

I thought I'd ask: have any of you been able to buy just the IR heating panels sold in the flash-cure units from the big suppliers?  All I need is the panel which, according to my reading of the post I linked to, is comparitively cheap ($150ish versus $500).  How does one go about actually getting either BBC or Intek to sell you just the heating panel and not give you bozo pricing?  I don't want to spend the extra money on an endeavor which might make me no money, plus I'm a DIY kinda guy.

Thank you for your time.  I wish I'd found this site when I was busy figuring this process out.

--HC

[Frog]

First, glad you found us.

Have you asked Intek for a price? They don't publish prices (Bozo or otherwise) but do ask potential buyers to contact them for that info.

http://industrial-ovens.intekcorp.com/viewitems/standard-heaters-elements/replacement-heating-elements?#

[Homer]

heat gun @ ace hardware is about 20 bucks...since you are doing this as a hobby and not a business, I would only assume you don't want to spend a ton of coin and will only run off small runs of shirts... however,If you are trying to start a business, then completely ignore my recomendation and do it properly.

[StuJohnston]

I had the same thoughts when I started out, then I realized that a decent sized shirt job could pay off a flash in one go. I ended up buying new, but craigslist would be your best option if you are trying to get by as cheaply as possible. I just took a look at my local craigslist and found an 18x24 BBC flash for $125. Granted it's 220V, but the deals are out there. Though if you are a fabricator, it seems like you should have a 220V outlet somewhere.

If you are stubborn enough to go through with this, you can find the panels at grainger, MSC or McMaster-Carr. I least I think you can. I have found them on grainger, but I can't find them now or some reason.

Personally I think that making your own flash dryer is a false economy. In fact that $350 unit is probably terrible as well. Even if you buy the panel for $125, you will be into the labor/opportunity cost after that.

I just read your post in that other thread, don't cure shirts in your oven. The flash is enough and you don't cook your food with it. Get an infrared temp gun as well. These can be found at harbor freight for cheep cheep.

I can't quite get a bead on your intention, are you planning to only do this one job? If so, just buy some union aerotex ink. It's a 'waterbased' ink that is catalyzed, no drying required. It's pretty inexpensive and you can even buy it at Dick Blick.

Basically, I agree with homer as well. If you must do it half assed, just use a heat gun.

[hboothe]

heat gun @ ace hardware is about 20 bucks...since you are doing this as a hobby and not a business, I would only assume you don't want to spend a ton of coin and will only run off small runs of shirts... however,If you are trying to start a business, then completely ignore my recomendation and do it properly.

Thank you for the reply.  It's not a bad idea, really, and I have a heat gun already so I could try it.  However, I would like to have something that's a little easier to use (swiveling a flash dryer over the shirt on a pivot and then rotating it back, all flashed at one time, seems easier and faster and more consistent than the heat gun).   I don't mind spending the money if I have to but I'd like to explore if I can do some DIY and save. 

I will use your idea for any more white/light on dark printing I do so I can kind of layer coats of ink until I get a proper flash dryer.

Thanks again.

--HC

[Dottonedan]

You may also check Craigslist in your area. Someone may be selling one for as low as 100.00 and sometimes you can get lucky and get a new one at half price.

[Frog]

I would like to have something that's a little easier to use (swiveling a flash dryer over the shirt on a pivot and then rotating it back, all flashed at one time, seems easier and faster and more consistent than the heat gun).   I don't mind spending the money if I have to but I'd like to explore if I can do some DIY and save. 

I will use your idea for any more white/light on dark printing I do so I can kind of layer coats of ink until I get a proper flash dryer.

Thanks again.

--HC

One thing that we have always recommended to those limited to a flash unit for full cure is to not do it on the printing platen, but rather have a dedicated platform for this (like Tom's ironing board)
Even commercially made shirt boards are not made to be subjected to the excessive heat of actual cure temps and dwell times. They will warp.

[hboothe]

I had the same thoughts when I started out, then I realized that a decent sized shirt job could pay off a flash in one go. I ended up buying new, but craigslist would be your best option if you are trying to get by as cheaply as possible. I just took a look at my local craigslist and found an 18x24 BBC flash for $125. Granted it's 220V, but the deals are out there. Though if you are a fabricator, it seems like you should have a 220V outlet somewhere.

If you are stubborn enough to go through with this, you can find the panels at grainger, MSC or McMaster-Carr. I least I think you can. I have found them on grainger, but I can't find them now or some reason.

Personally I think that making your own flash dryer is a false economy. In fact that $350 unit is probably terrible as well. Even if you buy the panel for $125, you will be into the labor/opportunity cost after that.

I just read your post in that other thread, don't cure shirts in your oven. The flash is enough and you don't cook your food with it. Get an infrared temp gun as well. These can be found at harbor freight for cheep cheep.

I can't quite get a bead on your intention, are you planning to only do this one job? If so, just buy some union aerotex ink. It's a 'waterbased' ink that is catalyzed, no drying required. It's pretty inexpensive and you can even buy it at Dick Blick.

Basically, I agree with homer as well. If you must do it half assed, just use a heat gun.

Thank you for your reply.

I look on CL from time to time but I'm about an hour from the nearest part of DFW so that makes it a bit hard to jump on deals; but it is a good suggestion and something I check from time to time.  I do have a number of 220v outlets, so I'm good there, yes.

I had not looked at Grainger or MSC Direct.  I had looked at McMaster-Carr.

First, what I see on several screen printing supplies web sites, including screen printing now, is a heating panel which has a smooth face and purportedly puts out even heat across the face and is supposedly the way to go for flash curing.  So, when I look for the bare panels I look for something which appears to be identical.  I could be wrong (I was wrong once before...it was a Thursday...a dark day), and y'all tell me if I am, but that's what I'm looking for; a flat, smooth surface on the heater and for it to be in a roughly square shape.

So, that said, here's what I found:
http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/Drying
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ecatalog/K-60/N-/Ntt-infrared+heater%7Cpanel?Ndr=textsearchesinbase%2Btrue&Ns=List+Price%7C0&sst=All-Lamps?navid=12104975+4288166702&searchterm=infrared+heater
http://www.mcmaster.com/#infrared-heaters/=nh56bm

Grainger has some pictures which are close but the actual dimensions are not what I'm seeing for flash dryers.

As for the quality of the flash dryer: I have no experience with any unit to say anything about quality.  But I can tell you that Screen Printing Supplies and Silk Screening Supplies (I think I got those two right...they're so similar in name it's hard to get it right), which seem to be large sellers of supplies for this industry (or at least they are well marketed), both sell flash dryers of this style.  The cheapest one in the 18x18 range, IIRC, is about $500. 

That said: can anyone say definitively that the horizontal flash cure units from those two sellers are junk?  If so, then I'm looking in the wrong direction.  If those units are not junk then I am looking in the right direction.  You know that neither of those companies is actually fabricating the heater panels; they're buying them somewhere: why can't I buy them, too?

As for the economy: if I can buy the panel for 150-200 bucks, even 250, I'd do it.  I like making stuff and I can do the wiring and the fab'ing and have fun doing it.  Write the labor off as play time.  Like I said, I'm a DIY kind of guy with many/most things and this would be one of the things I'd be willing to mess with.

It's not really about saving 200-250 bucks or so, it's about the prinicipals of saving money AND DIY.  Same reason I built my little press; yeah, I didn't really save any money by the time you consider my time, but it feels good to use a piece of equipment that I built myself and (this is really critical) which works well.  I also built my exposure unit...very simple device, but it works really well; I get crisp exposures and have burned and printed a screen with 5/16" tall letters which were closely kerned and got clean, crisp prints.

I appreciate the heads up on the shirt curing...okay.  I figured that with no warning label on the package about toxicity it probably wasn't that bad.  Regardless, I gotcha.

No, I am not doing just this one job.  It's something I'll do for a while until my next fad project consumes me.  But I like the DIY stuff, and doing it for less money and not getting taken by some company is fun.  And it is possible to do something right and cheap(er); ask me how my homemade 5x10 CNC plasma table works (instead of paying 16k for a partial kit from one company in Nevada I was going to buy from I built it for less than $5k).  Or, ask someone with a manual press why they're doing it cheap and not doing it right because they don't have an auto press...

I'll check out that ink, but I'm going to still want to use plastisol inks.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but I take offense to the idea that DIY is equivalent to half-assing something.  Much innovation in this country's history, and many of the 7+ million patents issued in the US, were done by DIY'ers.  Hit instructables.com or youtube.com and you'll see that there is a lot of homemade equipment over many disciplines/technologies which are not only DIY but also (sometimes) highly functional.

--HC

[hboothe]

First, glad you found us.

Have you asked Intek for a price? They don't publish prices (Bozo or otherwise) but do ask potential buyers to contact them for that info.

http://industrial-ovens.intekcorp.com/viewitems/standard-heaters-elements/replacement-heating-elements?#

Thank you for the reply.  No, I have not contacted them as I just heard the name Intek last night about midnight while prowling the 'net.  Today being a holiday I didn't expect a reply from them.  I will send a message over later and see what they can tell me.

--HC

[hboothe]

One thing that we have always recommended to those limited to a flash unit for full cure is to not do it on the printing platen, but rather have a dedicated platform for this (like Tom's ironing board)
Even commercially made shirt boards are not made to be subjected to the excessive heat of actual cure temps and dwell times. They will warp.
[/quote]

Good thought, thank you.  I don't intend to do a full cure on the platen, though.  But, when I get a flash-cure unit, I might have had you not said anything.

--HC

[Frog]

I'm not trying to be rude here, but I take offense to the idea that DIY is equivalent to half-assing something.  Much innovation in this country's history, and many of the 7+ million patents issued in the US, were done by DIY'ers.  Hit instructables.com or youtube.com and you'll see that there is a lot of homemade equipment over many disciplines/technologies which are not only DIY but also (sometimes) highly functional.

--HC

Your statement is to be expected under the circumstances, but anyone who has been on this forum for long knows that folks here often make the distinction between "half-assed" and "self built" when, in fact, the self-built item is done well.
Understand, that the crowd here, though tolerant and even encouraging of newbies, does make the distinction between professional (or capable of producing professional quality), and half-assed.

There are other forums that blur the line a bit more.

There is also eventually a time when analysis of the situation determines that apparent cost savings are actually an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" decisions.

So, ask away, pay attention, follow suggestions or don't, but keep a fairly thick skin as many will not hold back in their attempt to help.
Keep in mind that all posts here go much further than just between the OP and those who reply.
Thousands read these, and we would be remiss to merely automatically answer the way that often the poster hopes.

Welcome to the world of screen printing and its thrills, chills and bills. 

[hboothe]

Your statement is to be expected under the circumstances, but anyone who has been on this forum for long knows that folks here often make the distinction between "half-assed" and "self built" when, in fact, the self-built item is done well.
Understand, that the crowd here, though tolerant and even encouraging of newbies, does make the distinction between professional (or capable of producing professional quality), and half-assed.

There are other forums that blur the line a bit more.

There is also eventually a time when analysis of the situation determines that apparent cost savings are actually an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" decisions.

So, ask away, pay attention, follow suggestions or don't, but keep a fairly thick skin as many will not hold back in their attempt to help.
Keep in mind that all posts here go much further than just between the OP and those who reply.
Thousands read these, and we would be remiss to merely automatically answer the way that often the poster hopes.

Welcome to the world of screen printing and its thrills, chills and bills. 

Frog, I think that you mean that most on here do NOT make a distinction between half-assed and DIY, which is a shame, because it can be done right; those companies producing this stuff professionally aren't magicians, they're just humans like the rest of us.  If they can do it, it is possible for us to do it, depending on the individual.

Besides, it shouldn't be a penis-measuring contest to exchange ideas, "well, you're not buying the expensive, factory-made stuff so you're not as good as I am" type mentality.  I did read here that this is supposed to be the forum for "friendly" screenprinters and so forth.

And I've stated clearly that I may spend more time than it's worth to save the money, but it's my time and it's how I choose to spend it, so no one should try to discourage me from doing this because it's a waste of time/money.  It's fun and interesting and I have to do something.

And I'm well aware that many may read this thread and that's why I take the time to clearly explain what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, and what I expect to gain from doing it, so that future readers might be able to weigh whether or not they want to do it as well.  At least I try to.

Back to the original topic:

I'll contact Intek re selling the panels by themselves.  Has anyone here made their own flash cure unit or repaired a factory-made unit by purchasing directly from Intek?  Part numbers?  Satisfaction with the products?

Thank you.

--HC

[Frog]

Your statement is to be expected under the circumstances, but anyone who has been on this forum for long knows that folks here often make the distinction between "half-assed" and "self built" when, in fact, the self-built item is done well.
Understand, that the crowd here, though tolerant and even encouraging of newbies, does make the distinction between professional (or capable of producing professional quality), and half-assed.

There are other forums that blur the line a bit more.

There is also eventually a time when analysis of the situation determines that apparent cost savings are actually an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" decisions.

So, ask away, pay attention, follow suggestions or don't, but keep a fairly thick skin as many will not hold back in their attempt to help.
Keep in mind that all posts here go much further than just between the OP and those who reply.
Thousands read these, and we would be remiss to merely automatically answer the way that often the poster hopes.

Welcome to the world of screen printing and its thrills, chills and bills. 

Frog, I think that you mean that most on here do NOT make a distinction between half-assed and DIY, which is a shame, because it can be done right; those companies producing this stuff professionally aren't magicians, they're just humans like the rest of us.  If they can do it, it is possible for us to do it, depending on the individual.

Besides, it shouldn't be a penis-measuring contest to exchange ideas, "well, you're not buying the expensive, factory-made stuff so you're not as good as I am" type mentality.  I did read here that this is supposed to be the forum for "friendly" screenprinters and so forth.


--HC

No, I still stand by my original statement
If you take a some time to read all of the old equipment posts here, I think that you will find more than one "diy" project which was quite clever, well done, and praised and labeled as such here.

[ScreenFoo]

Some pretty cool stuff in this thread:

http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,723.0.html

Haven't bought bare panels from anyone, but Tempco makes them as well.  I have no idea whether or not they're better/cheaper/whatever.
They will custom make any size/power panel--at least that's what the sales guy tells me repeatedly.   

[Inkworks]

Nothing but good advice above, some from people that know all from heat-guns to giant gas dryers and everything in between. I don't see any attitude from anybody above, perhaps you're reading it in where it isn't.

Not trying to be rude, just straight talk, but you're posts seem to contradict themselves as to whether you're jumping into this as a real business you intend to grow, or if "It's something I'll do for a while until my next fad project consumes me". As far as answers to your question go, the two are mutually exclusive in my mind, and depending on which you're looking to do, my answer would vary greatly.

Anything I could add has been posted above. My 14' Hix conveyor dryer was bought used for $200 and would plug right in to a 230V 40amp or above outlet, and would handle anything a manual printer can throw at it and most of what my Auto can do.