WB Foil Adhesive Problem ONLY on White Gildan 5000...others foiled like always.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

We use Jantex Waterbased Foil Adhesive.  You have to hit the parameters just right, but if you do, it gives us near perfect results, with no voids. EVER.....

At least it always has, up until yesterday.

We ran 40 or 50 CCI WB Discharge shirts for a Fireworks display for the 4th, with some foiled areas. A handful of the shirts were for the Pyro Crew, and were Athletic Grey blends, the bulk of them were the 100% cotton G5000's in the subject line of this post.

I thought I did something wrong, maybe too much dwell in the tunnel, and we tossed them. They were NOT GOOD..... I reprinted them this morning with similar results. Light Grey blends came out perfect.  The 100% Cotton Gildan WHITES were salable, but less than stellar.

One of the gals that was heatpressing the foil effects ran back and warned me that the foil was less perfect than usual, so I printed the rest of them with an extra pass of adhesive, which helped.  But still, the White Gildan 5000's were just.....mediocre, while the grays were all perfect.

We do a lot of foil and bling (probably more than I want) and the Jantex WB Adhesive has been the best for us. We always set the art up in combination with WB and Discharge for the other elements so that the foil only sticks to the adhesive.

I often print 3 passes of the adhesive, but it isn't such a big deal in small quantities, say 40 pcs and under. PFP through 110 mesh should be sufficient, but PFP yields a less "solid", less brilliant effect so I usually do PFPFP. It just looks nicer in a side by side comparison. The washability is amazing!

This problem has happened before, with White Gildans, but I didn't make the connection, since we were less experienced. Now, I'm wondering.

I reached a point, that I thought I knew all the foil tricks, and my gals up front always seemed happy with the results. We though we had it dialed in.

I'm open to any suggestions. (All manual)

Stan

[ebscreen]

One thing we always do is make sure we have everything super dialed in both in front of the dryer and on the heat press.
No one wants a bunch of shirts that foil won't adhere correctly to.

Double check your heat press. We've found that adjusting temp/time/pressure will have a huge affect and we can
get foil to adhere to almost anything by messing with those.

We use HD clear tinted to the color of the shirt. 125-180, usually two strokes and away we go.

We have had bad batches of foil. Never from Crown though.

The difference between the grey/white is befuddling, but may be due to fabric content and the
grey getting hotter either in the dryer (counter intuitive for the results) or on the heat press.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

...The difference between the grey/white is befuddling, but may be due to fabric content and the
grey getting hotter either in the dryer (counter intuitive for the results) or on the heat press.

I actually had considered that. But you are right, it seems counter-intuitive.

I have an infrared (Brown/Harco) conveyor dryer with 6 feet of chamber, and the darker shirts surely reach the peak temperature sooner, I'd think. That part of the process is "dialed in" to a degree, but I wouldn't say super dialed-in at all. For one thing, infrareds vary wildly with how many shirts are occupying the chamber at a given time.

But the way I printed this job (and reprinted it)    the darker shirts were scattered in by size, instead of color. And the color difference was slight, from white to Athletic Gray.

What do you mean by HD clear? (I should know this, and I might...after a good nap.)  By 2 strokes, do you mean Print Flash Print?

[ebscreen]

High Density clear.

You basically want a thick smooth deposit, and HD fits the bill. We tried the adhesives but found it to work better.

2 strokes meaning doublestroke no flash between.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Thanks. So that's plastisol? Right?

Why would you need to change the color of your HD clear to match the shirt color? I could see more of a reason to try to match the color of the foil...so flaws wound be hidden.

Perhaps I misread your previous reply.

[ebscreen]

Match the shirt to deal with the inevitable chipping after wash. It is the least durable decoration method after all. First application should be flawless or nearly so.

And yep, plastisol.

[TCT]

I have to say your situation has me stumped (not that hard usually) I am with EB on this, we use plastisol for the adhesive to.
It has been a while since we ran anything but transfers through our electric dryer so I don't remember to well,  but don't you usually tweek/lower the temp for white shirts so the don't scorch?

That Jantex stuff though,  you like it aside from the current issue?  I Contacted them a while back and let's just say I was so un-empressed by the customer service I didn't order. But if you like it I may have to chalk that one up to a case of the Mondays!

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Alex, the "hand" of the foil applied to the waterbased foil adhesive is very soft, and the washability has been outstanding. I ran across our foil manufacturer (Kevin @ K-Lazer/Amagic) at a show in Houston, and he sang the praises of the Jantex WB adhesive, and the next Monday I ordered a sample. That is all we buy from them, but we've been using it ever since. I call for Opal when I call with questions, and she is terrific. Just to re-order, I talk to anyone who answers.

It will "dry in" like any waterbased ink.. and if I had a huge order, I don't know if I'd use it. 50 pieces,
or  less,  no problem. An auto would be easier, probably.


<edit> We ran across Kevin from K-Lazer/Amagic at FT WORTH....not Houston. oops.....

[TCT]

Alex, the "hand" of the foil applied to the waterbased foil adhesive is very soft, and the washability has been outstanding. I ran across our foil manufacturer (Kevin @ K-Lazer/Amagic) at a show in Houston, and he sang the praises of the Jantex WB adhesive, and the next Monday I ordered a sample. That is all we buy from them, but we've been using it ever since. I call for Opal when I call with questions, and she is terrific. Just to re-order, I talk to anyone who answers.

It will "dry in" like any waterbased ink.. and if I had a huge order, I don't know if I'd use it. 50 pieces,
or  less,  no problem. An auto would be easier, probably.

Thats nice to know, we use mostly the Amagic stuff too. I will have to give Jantex a call and try some out then. This time I'll give them a call on a Tuesday!

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

I need to do an update on this thread. 

I found out the Jantex waterbased adhesive to which I referred in June is no longer available.  I spoke to ***** in customer service and she said it is due to a chemical that the enviro-nazis have deemed unfit for California. (My paraphrase. Someone prolly discovered that lab rats die after consuming a quart a day. Sheesh....)

But no matter, the updated version is decidedly print-UNfriendly...at least at my shop, on a manual press.

I simply CANNOT apply Amagic or Crown foils with 100% reliable coverage without it, and I have tried, straight plastisol, Plastisol/Adhesive mixtures, Wilflex Epic HD Clear 2, And Rutland X-Glue.  I ABSOLUTELY KNOW it can be done, because I read this board and I've learned to trust mostof the members who have posted on the topic.  I just can't seem to "dial it in", I guess. Ive gotten close to perfection with International Coatings' Granite Base but it wasn't repeatable and my stock stiffened to an unusable blob.

But that all changed today.

Kevin at Amagic Foils (K-Laser) unbelievably had suggested Crown foils might work better(!) with traditional plastisol systems.  Cudos to the guy for such a refreshingly honest appraisal, but it turned out not to help at all.  But Kevin DID solve my problem, and keep me as a customer all in one swell foop, by suggesting another Water Based Adhesive, namely Matsui's TFG-0905 Binder.

It gives excellent bonding for me at least.  It "dries in" like most waterbased inks, but I added 5% by weight of Matsui's Printgen MG and misted the adhesive on the screen occasionally with water. Some of the tinest detail was problemmatic.

The Crown Foil I had purchased to try out--works excellent with this adhesive, and so does the Amagic.

I wish I could use some of you guy's foiling techniques with HD Clear, but I am apparently a Blithering FoilTard.  If there are any others out there like me, this help them too.

Stan

(I had a horrible time finding this stuff in gallons. If you want to try some, PM me and I'll give you a source. I'm not sure I should just post it right here in front of God and everybody, due to our advertisers who support this terrific forum.)

[noortrd]

use matsui wb new foil adhesive .