What a difference a base makes...

[ebscreen]

CCI Premium Discharge Base rules all over Rutlands sorry base.

We switched to Rutland because that's what my main supplier carries even though for years we used
and liked the CCI much better. Yesterday we were printing our red mix and it just wasn't
as bright and deep as I like it to be. We also weren't getting as much saturation as I like.

Tried more pressure, changing squeegees, angle, speed, more water in the mix, etc. Even though
I knew we were using a new base I was giving Rutland the benefit of the doubt. I mean, all bases
are equal, no?

Finally said mix it with the CCI base. Same pigment/activator load. Same squeegee/specs. Same screen.
Much, much better results. I've attached pics of both the color and the saturation. You'll have to take
my word for it on the color, I'm using a camera phone and can't get reds to look right. But the CCI
is on the left and is the kind of deep bright red we've come to know from discharge. The Rutland is literally
pale in comparison.

Two pails of Rutland base can be had cheap from us!

[ZooCity]

Looks all orangey from the phone pic but I smell what yer stepping in.  You've posted a better pic of your red in the past and was gorgeous.

I just don't dig Rutlands base that we've used either....nor the pigments for that matter.   The quick cure base feels like printing with latex paint or something, takes about 10 minutes of high speed mixing and water addition to get good flow characteristics out of it and constant dried pigment chunks are a cardinal sin to me, just not a fan. 

We're working through the 15 or so gallons of Texcharge we have left and then it's all CCI from there.  I think the D-Base premium is pretty close to perfect although I do slightly, just slightly, prefer the way Texcharge flows to it.  In any case CCI gave me the red I wanted when Texcharge couldn't, I love our red mix now and it's been doing exceptionally well across a lot of garment types. 

[dirkdiggler]

care to share that cci red recipe?  texcharge red has performed better for us, think I just cant get the right cci mix.

[ebscreen]

It does look orangey, but trust it's a nice red. Stupid camera.

Rutland Scarlet pigment at %8, %4 activator. Nothin' special.

I have a shirt that's over two years old printed with that red and probably %80 saturation
and it still looks awesome. CCI base of course.

[mk162]

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia "Baby Tan" (The video's owner prevents external embedding)

[screenprintguy]

So far we see CCI as the easiest to use, especially wet on wet prints, sim process, and of course their white. I do cheat, CCI says I don't need to, but it's been the formula so far, I add 2% Fixer N from matsui to all mixes, except if it's a plain discharge underbase, or just a natural discharge, and the same with Print Gen from matsui, 2% added to everything, it really helps prevent caking up on the backs of screens on the multi color wow prints. We tried Rutland, of course Matsui, recently some Sericol, and CCI just seems easier to work with, as far as base and Discharge white goes. I still use Matsui Pigments for my colors. Ryan from Ryonet came up with an on the fly adjustment to make using Matsui's pms generator that gets you dead on with your pantones. Always 5% activator, never adding h2o, the addition of the FixerN and the Printgen take that place. We see no fading, and now have shirts well over a year old with multi color designs that we wear at the shop weekly that the dam shirts are falling apart, bleach stains ect, and the discharge colors are still at full brilliance. CCI discharge base and D-White are really awesome reliable products!!

[ebscreen]

We still use Rutland pigments but might switch to CCI.

Printgen in everything, with a splash of water.


Unfortunately CCI is kind of strong arming distributors by not allowing them to carry any
CCI products if they also carry any other WB systems.

And ordering direct from CCI can be bewildering at best. I asked for a product to clean the
floor in my last shop and ended up with a degreaser that didn't work very well for cleaning
floors.

[ZooCity]

Just the Pantone for 185c  2x pigment.  Activate at 3%, test, bump to 4-4.5% if needed, depending on garment/dye lot. You must keep the activator as low as possible to get the color saturation you want from the reds.

Our Texcharge reds were close but always a little "blown out" looking at any activator level. With no option to boost the pigment load, I switched to CCI. 

We add nothing to our WB and DC inks but water but I do have some Matsui additives now that they sent me to try and get our 301 Metallic Binder to behave better. I notice Matsui is very additive based, like some special voodoo formula for every mix.  I like that CCI and Sericol are not that way.  If it belongs in the ink, the base should already contain it.

Yes, ordering direct is ok w. CCI if you know precisely what you need but a maze of similar products with no one to tell you the difference when you don't.  The only other area supplier to us is for it is ryonet and they just relabel it and charge like double so eff that, we order it all direct.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

<snip> I still use Matsui Pigments for my colors. Ryan from Ryonet came up with an on the fly adjustment to make using Matsui's pms generator that gets you dead on with your pantones. <snip>

I hadn't heard about this. I'll go snoop their site, but can you expand on this?

Thanks! Stan

[screenprintguy]

here is the direct video link, he explains some adjustments that he makes when the matsui generator tells you to use the standard 301 bases, or matte base ect, using some on the fly calculations of discharge base, and discharge white. We've been following this and our discharge pantones are dead on. Remember, when he refers to Ryonet discharge base, and Ryonet discharge white, they are re-labled CCI discharge base and white. Then using Matsui's color pigments.  Here is the link,

How To Pantone Mix Color Discharge Screen Printing Ink

Hope you are doing well Stan, God bless ya!!!

Mike

[dirkdiggler]

looks like he loses 2 shades to me.  that's why I prefer cci software, it will automatically do a 5% boost with the click of a button.

[lmlwsp]

Where did you find the CCI software?

[blue moon]

very interesting!
the bottles and color names are exactly the same as the CCI. Is CCI buying Matsui pigments? Or the other way around?

CCI, I should add, has been right on the money with PMS matching without any modification (I should note that we have not done a ton of it so far, but what has been done is right on).

pierre

[dirkdiggler]

Where did you find the CCI software?

free on their website.

[noortrd]

You use only base or use some discharge white to print on black fabrics?.