The honeymoon is over: Sad day with our Aquasol HV

[alan802]

Hardener on both sides just a few minutes after it's dry to the touch.  It just seems like the ink seeped through the regi marks since they are in the path of the squeegee blade then starts to come out from under the tape once it's saturated.  You would think that if the emulsion was truly breaking down then we'd have issues in areas besides the edges of the tape on the shirt side.  There was ink underneath all of the clear tape on the shirt side but none in the area that weren't taped up.  I just have a hard time imagining that the ink seeps through the regi marks since with plastisol it never does that.

This is how we prepare our DC screens:  I'm developing the screen like normal, a few extra light units than if it were plastisol, I let it dry for 15 minutes to several hours, it really depends on how busy we are, then after it dries I'm blocking out with HVP, let the blockout dry in front of a fan, then I'm applying Murkami's hardener to both sides, it dries rather quickly, then I'm post exposing for 2 times the length of the original exposure.  I've got another screen ready to go that I blocked out the regi marks and will not be putting any tape on the shirt side of the screen, but everything else is the same.

[ebscreen]

No tape on shirt side of WB screens unless it's 24 pieces or less.

[ZooCity]

Alan, just my opinion but no hardener on unexposed emulsion.  Blockout, post expo, harden.

[alan802]

Well, I just put a bullet proof screen on the press, no regi marks, post exposed, blockout, post expose, hardener, post expose in the sun, no tape on the shirt side, and it took 200 shirts for the emulsion to give way.  Is anyone using Jantex Sweet?  I've ran several 300-400 piece jobs without doing this much to the screens without any emulsion failure and now this is the second big job I've done with just the Jantex Sweet base with plastisol on top that has failed.  I'm at a loss.  I don't know if I can do anything else to a screen with the time constraints I have.

[Printficient]

Well, I just put a bullet proof screen on the press, no regi marks, post exposed, blockout, post expose, hardener, post expose in the sun, no tape on the shirt side, and it took 200 shirts for the emulsion to give way.  Is anyone using Jantex Sweet?  I've ran several 300-400 piece jobs without doing this much to the screens without any emulsion failure and now this is the second big job I've done with just the Jantex Sweet base with plastisol on top that has failed.  I'm at a loss.  I don't know if I can do anything else to a screen with the time constraints I have.

Alan, how about expose screen, wash out, dry, tape up, print?  Nova with diazo.

[screenprintguy]

I can testify to that one Sonny, Nova with Diazo is purdy awesome compared to the others. I still have a set that's a few months old now that we keep using in re-orders, been printed on 8 times, washed with scrubby pad, looks like brand new imaged screens. At least knowing there was no hardener used on them, they should reclaim easy when they give, but so far, they don't look like they are giving out any time soon.

[alan802]

But I've also been told great things about the HVP and nobody has really had this type of problem or at least this severe yet here I am, having one of the worst days we've ever had.  I know guys that have gotten a few thousand shirts with this emulsion without diazo without a breakdown.  Something major is going on and I can't really figure it out.

[Admiral]

I have heard numerous times and just a couple months ago when given a free gallon of Saati emulsion that I should 'change to this emulsion and then I can use just one, instead of the 3 I use'.  Not worth it imo, different emulsions work differently and we print a few different types of ink.  SP-1400 has never failed me with the water-based printing we have done.  No hardener needed up to 1k pieces, hardener above 1k(MS from Murakami).

As for blocking out / taping reg marks we don't use them on water based screens, art only...less hassle imo

When I tried water based ink on a dual cure proclaim screen, by taping up the reg marks it left marks on the shirt in a line below the tape...doesn't happen with diazo emulsion but I rather not use tape at all on WB screens.

[IntegrityShirts]

But I've also been told great things about the HVP and nobody has really had this type of problem or at least this severe yet here I am, having one of the worst days we've ever had.  I know guys that have gotten a few thousand shirts with this emulsion without diazo without a breakdown.  Something major is going on and I can't really figure it out.

I regularly run 50 piece orders without any hardener, just straight HV or HVP, so something is up with either your ink, emulsion, or possibly EOM.  I've never used Jantex, just CCI, Matsui, and Rutland.  Are you using MS hardener?

Maybe my tape is crappier that doesn't release as well as others, but I have rarely had issue with taped registration marks seeping.  I will say, the tape comes off really easily on non-hardened screens as I think the ink is slowly soaking through the emulsion, turning it back into a liquid.  So after a 50 piece run, the moisture level in the entire film of emulsion is pretty darn high, or the tape on the bottom wouldn't come off so easily.

Still, I can't leave Aquasol, it's just too darn good everywhere else.  The amount of time/cost it takes to "test" a gallon of new emulsion far outweighs the little nuances of KNOWING your current emulsion.  I think your issues are a fluke Alan, I personally wouldn't give up just yet.

If you have some cci or rutland to throw in the screen, that might narrow down the "is it the ink" question.

[alan802]

When doing a hybrid type print, DC base with plastisol on top, what base are y'all using?  How many of you mix in a white DC with your clear base?  I tried putting about 20% of the Rutland DC white into the clear Jantex DC base yesterday and got decent results but at what ratio do you see problems.  I've tried using the CCI D-white as an underbase once with plastisol on top and obviously that didn't work so I was wondering how strong of a ratio can I get away with.  The 20% white DC to 80% clear worked a lot better than just the straight Jantex clear but I've got a bad feeling about the Jantex.  We've had zero issues with our HVP with CCI D-white and the Rutland DC white, but every time but one I've had major screen breakdown using the Jantex Sweet.

I ended up taping the entire shirt side of the screen with Polyken chem resistant tape yesterday to get through about 200 shirts.  I was so frustrated with everything that I went to the extreme to get the job done.  So out of 570 shirts, we had 24 misprints and I was standing over the second printhead with a flashlight the entire print run looking for leakage and it took us approximately 5 hours to print those 570.  Luckily it was only one side.

I'm not against using the xenon nova but I really don't think the emulsion is the problem.  If everyone else can use it up to 3000 pieces then we would have gotten way farther than 30-50 shirts before every breakdown.  I just spent $60 on a new gallon of this Jantex stuff and I cannot use it until I figure out if it's the problem.  So now I'm going to try and get my supplier to sell me a quart of the Matsui DC base but they only sell in gallons and pails.  I'd really like to give this Jantex back to him and get a credit because I think if I used the Nova it would also break down.  I could be wrong but I've put a lot of thought and effort into this and everything keeps going back to the ink.  We've got a 2K piece DC underbase, plastisol top to do in a few weeks and I'll be damned if I have this problem again.  If I buy a gallon of Nova and keep using the Jantex and the screen breaks down I'm going to blow a gasket.  If I change DC ink and emulsion and don't have any problems then I'll never really know what the issue was.  I'm thinking about sticking with the HVP and changing the ink first and see what happens.  But then again I don't think we have another DC job before the 2K piece.  Something tells me to change emulsion and ink and forget about what caused the problem but I don't work like that.  I don't like not knowing why we have an issue but the smart/quickest thing would be to move on and get the 2K piece job without any problems.

What would you guys do?  Give up on the HVP and Jantex or stick with HVP and change the Jantex? 

[ericheartsu]

i thought the same thing. other people are using this combination, there must be something wrong. but nope, turns out discharge is brutal. That's why i've become a huge Nova advocate. We just printed over 12K tees in 15 days, and the only screen problem we had, was our gauntlet was pushing ink out the corners of our newmans.

[Gilligan]

It maybe a combination of issues... you may have a more harsh DC that is eating your HVP alive and something like Nova might hold up "better"... but that doesn't mean that HVP is the problem in and of itself.

[Prosperi-Tees]

The Jantex sweet I have used in the past do seem more harsh than CCI. I could not get more than 50 or so prints out of Jantex either but CCI no problems.

[ebscreen]

Ditch the Jantex.

Aquasol and CCI/Rutland are a proven combo, unless you got a bad batch of either. (not out of the question)

In this game I like to stick with the major players.

[screenprintguy]

Ruined a load of 8 color shirts rushing to move through the job by printing a 100% DC white underbase. Some people say use just a small percentage, but knowing the way the 100% DC white worked, I think I'd stick to a DC base, 5% activator, don't add anything like the printgens or fixers, no need for that in the UB, maybe a 2-5% h20 to get deep penetration and use a highlight white plastisol in the seps. We re-ran said job doing just that and the colors were amazing on the DC base, highlight white through a 180 mesh count was fully opaque over the natural discharge UB and will now be the standard method for re-runs for this particular customer. Ended up DC underbase, flash, then 7 top colors of plastisol, 1 revolution, and came out flawless, spot color job as well, not a sim pro. The CCI D-Base was awesome with 5% activator, through a 160 mesh.