MHM presses

[TCT]

One thing that is important about the SRoque to know is that you need to ask for what you want.
~Ryan

Like a on/off switch?!
 Seeing that Ryan ordered his before mine, all I asked for was to make mine better than his

[alan802]

Also, i don't like that in the past the M&R plattens come up to the screens, that always bugged me. but i believe on the newer presses they don't do that.

That was A HUGE if not the main deciding factor for us. The MHM and S.Roque style I like better, it allows for multiple jobs to be set up tested/printed and then just turn that head off. There is no need to put pallet tape or block off the shirt side of the screen once there is ink in it if you are going to leave the screen in and run another job. All I could find for M&R that did that was the Alpha 8, and it looks like the old formulas, but I was told those are not sold anymore.

I see how setting up multiple jobs on a press with the pallet carousel raising and lowering to the screens could be a problem...if the press were so uncalibrated and you're printing with very little/no off contact.  Has this been an issue at your shops with other machines that the pallet carousel raises and lowers?  Anyone?  I know there are some machines out there that aren't calibrated worth a damn so I do believe it can be an issue but surely nobody on this forum has a press that far out of whack.  We don't set up multiple jobs on the auto very often but when we do there are no issues or taping of screens and worrying about buildup on screens that aren't being printed.  BUT, I will agree that I do like the auto that does have the print arm lift ability like I learned on with the American Centurian.  There is no doubt in my mind that there is no faster setup than the MHM.  Along with the touchscreen control panel and robust operating interface that allows for tons of upgrades just by updating some software.  When I see the videos of the MHM machines I'm always amazed that they haven't had more of an impact here in the states.  I know there is a lot more to selling autos than just the features of the machine and they have not done the job necessary in the other areas to gain more market share and those things are obviously very important and we see how M&R has done business and has developed loyalty without necessarily having the bells and whistles that are sexy to a lot of guys like me.  The first press I ever saw at a show my first year in this industry was an MHM E-type and at that moment I knew we would be getting a new auto to replace the centurian but when the time came to buy, unfortunately the MHM didn't factor in the decision because of a few of those "other things" besides the machines.  Now that we are quickly outgrowing the one auto, I will look at the MHM again and give them another opportunity but there is a major issue with having two completely different machines on the floor with two different regi systems to deal with.   Ok, rambling over, but I do love the MHM machines.

[blue moon]

Also, i don't like that in the past the M&R plattens come up to the screens, that always bugged me. but i believe on the newer presses they don't do that.

That was A HUGE if not the main deciding factor for us. The MHM and S.Roque style I like better, it allows for multiple jobs to be set up tested/printed and then just turn that head off. There is no need to put pallet tape or block off the shirt side of the screen once there is ink in it if you are going to leave the screen in and run another job. All I could find for M&R that did that was the Alpha 8, and it looks like the old formulas, but I was told those are not sold anymore.

I see how setting up multiple jobs on a press with the pallet carousel raising and lowering to the screens could be a problem...if the press were so uncalibrated and you're printing with very little/no off contact.  Has this been an issue at your shops with other machines that the pallet carousel raises and lowers?  Anyone?  I know there are some machines out there that aren't calibrated worth a damn so I do believe it can be an issue but surely nobody on this forum has a press that far out of whack.  We don't set up multiple jobs on the auto very often but when we do there are no issues or taping of screens and worrying about buildup on screens that aren't being printed.  BUT, I will agree that I do like the auto that does have the print arm lift ability like I learned on with the American Centurian.  There is no doubt in my mind that there is no faster setup than the MHM.  Along with the touchscreen control panel and robust operating interface that allows for tons of upgrades just by updating some software.  When I see the videos of the MHM machines I'm always amazed that they haven't had more of an impact here in the states.  I know there is a lot more to selling autos than just the features of the machine and they have not done the job necessary in the other areas to gain more market share and those things are obviously very important and we see how M&R has done business and has developed loyalty without necessarily having the bells and whistles that are sexy to a lot of guys like me.  The first press I ever saw at a show my first year in this industry was an MHM E-type and at that moment I knew we would be getting a new auto to replace the centurian but when the time came to buy, unfortunately the MHM didn't factor in the decision because of a few of those "other things" besides the machines.  Now that we are quickly outgrowing the one auto, I will look at the MHM again and give them another opportunity but there is a major issue with having two completely different machines on the floor with two different regi systems to deal with.   Ok, rambling over, but I do love the MHM machines.

we have an E-type that moves teh platens and don't have any issues with multiple jobs on the press (do it every day). Well, if we are printing fleece or something thicker it becomes a problem and every now and then we forget to raise the other jobs, but it happens maybe once a year and we just blow the stuff out on the first few prints. Not a big deal. . .

pierre

[TCT]

I see how setting up multiple jobs on a press with the pallet carousel raising and lowering to the screens could be a problem...if the press were so uncalibrated and you're printing with very little/no off contact.  Has this been an issue at your shops with other machines that the pallet carousel raises and lowers?  Anyone?  I know there are some machines out there that aren't calibrated worth a damn so I do believe it can be an issue but surely nobody on this forum has a press that far out of whack. 

Ehemmmm..... It's called a anatol.

[ZooCity]

If I've learned one thing about running an auto so far is that it's all about setup times.  They all print fast as hell once setup, the new ones especially. If you are at the point where you need a high production machine and your typical job is multi color, well you already know that scheduling is the game and you are always playing against time to get the orders out, so you need to keep the thing spinning every minute you have your crew in the shop.  Buying new I would immediately default to the presses with lickety split setup built in form the ground up.  MHM and sRoque both appear to have that nailed. 

We're ok with the gauntlet as most of what's run on it is low color count so the setup is neither here nor there.  I've only ran maybe 10 jobs on it and I'm already at the point where it takes maybe 5-10 min per color to get rolling.  The pin lock nails multi color butt reg on the first go pretty easily but when it doesn't you might have just lost an hour or more to releasing sq pressure, adjusting stupid micros, test printing, repeating.  Without pre reg though it would be an exercise in wasting overhead.

This issue with the sq pressure, is it still present on newer M&R presses?  There is zero reason, imho, for either the sq or flood to be resting on the screen if it's not stroking, this just causes problems all around.  On the Gauntlet it's the #1 design flaw by far- you can't adjust micros, can't use the "print start" mode as freshly tacked platens will get stuck to the sq pressure area and "snap" the screen on table down, flanging ink all over the place, if not also trashing your stencil, you get this super great pressure line on every shirt from the sq rest area, you have constant pressure on the screen which is obviously not beneficial and yes you need to apply excessive blockout and then tape to both the top and sometimes the bottom of the sq rest area -it's just plain stupid any way you look at it and would take no more than a dedicated valve to solve it.  Buying new I wouldn't even consider a press that does this, no matter the service or quality.  I do understand why anyone would even consider building this way as it keeps that cost down with less parts involved and of course is part of why these presses never die, there's less to break.

[Admiral]

This issue with the sq pressure, is it still present on newer M&R presses?  There is zero reason, imho, for either the sq or flood to be resting on the screen if it's not stroking, this just causes problems all around.  On the Gauntlet it's the #1 design flaw by far- you can't adjust micros, can't use the "print start" mode as freshly tacked platens will get stuck to the sq pressure area and "snap" the screen on table down, flanging ink all over the place, if not also trashing your stencil, you get this super great pressure line on every shirt from the sq rest area, you have constant pressure on the screen which is obviously not beneficial and yes you need to apply excessive blockout and then tape to both the top and sometimes the bottom of the sq rest area -it's just plain stupid any way you look at it and would take no more than a dedicated valve to solve it.  Buying new I wouldn't even consider a press that does this, no matter the service or quality.  I do understand why anyone would even consider building this way as it keeps that cost down with less parts involved and of course is part of why these presses never die, there's less to break.

It's present on our Diamondback which we bought in 2010.  Dumbest thing ever to have on an auto especially when using revolver mode for low quantity high color jobs.  I remember it hitting the black squeegee down on a hockey jersey and because not all the platens were full there was emulsion missing, so a tiny bit of ink not even 1/8" square went on the jersey, then when it went to flash the 2nd time the black burned through the jersey. Also the pressure marks at the bottom are the worst.  Early on I had a job of 50 tri blends 5 color, full 12x15" print, tons of ink going down so I flashed them 3x.  Worst pressure marks ever on those shirts.

Anyway they improved the Diamondback 5x so this wouldn't be an issue anymore but I kinda hate our press.  Especially when we do 1-10k piece jobs and can't get it faster than 45dz/hr.  I can't wait for us to get a real press.  I like the idea of those arms lifting up on the MHM and Sroque.  Also those micros sure do look awesome on MHM.

It's all about fastest setups today, all of the 'real' presses can run at 60dz/hr or more easily and most jobs for everyone here are under 1k pieces anyway.

[Nick Bane]

thats only an issue on our 98 gauntlet if we have too much flood pressure.  back off the flood pressure and its not an issue for us at least.

i should add the same could be said for the 91 gauntlet i learned to use in '93.

[TCT]

Admiral, why can't you get your press to cycle faster than 45dz./hr?

The fastest I have seen that we could cycle our anatol was 67dz./hr. That press is all air.
We successfully ran the S.Roque at 1020pc./hr or 85dz/hr.(the S.Roque counts by pieces per hour by default) the other day for like 35 min. I was blown away, and we still had a dwell on. If we can keep that up and improve we may have to compete in the next M&R challenge!
One thing I noticed that seemed to speed things up, is the S.Roque by default prints as if you were printing WB ink. So it prints, lifts the head and while it is indexing it is also flooding the screen. Kinda backwards from what I was used to. It has the option to change it, but I got used to it quickly. I would imagine if other people set their press up to flood first or during indexing it may speed up the printing. We can't try it on our anatol because if you want to flood first, it puts a 1 second delay which defeats the purpose. I would be interested if others if they switch theirs if it speeds printing up?

[Screened Gear]

Admiral,

 So it prints, lifts the head and while it is indexing it is also flooding the screen. Kinda backwards from what I was used to.

That is how my MHM prints. Prints then floods when indexing. I have had my press up to 520 shirts an hour. I was loading and unloading. I know a guy locally that prints jobs at or over 1000 an hour. The bottle neck is the loader and some shops the dryer.

[Ryan]

One thing I noticed that seemed to speed things up, is the S.Roque by default prints as if you were printing WB ink. So it prints, lifts the head and while it is indexing it is also flooding the screen. Kinda backwards from what I was used to. It has the option to change it, but I got used to it quickly.


Pre-Flood! 4 months before I got that figured out. Had to ask at the show in Atlantic City. Unfortunately their english "translations" make no sense. If you have to double stroke (I know, your doing it wrong if you have to do that) but have you tried the P/F/P while in the down position without the heads picking up? 10% faster.

That being said, I think we are coming into the golden age of presses. New competitiors, faster presses, more technology is resulting in better competition which is good for all us ink jockeys. I don't think you can really buy a "bad" press now a days. After all they only print t-shirts right 

[ScreenFoo]

I'd agree a 'park' mode for sq/fl is a great feature, especially setup/teardown, and color changes.
If I get the point of why M&R designed the air systems the way they did on the Gauntlets (and others) it's simple economics--you have a single ganged mac valve that controls the choppers and the stroke cylinder--triple the mac valves, triple the IO interface, and more headaches for the programmers. 

Kind of a moot point now that everyone seems to be going straight to PC type solutions for controlling presses, but having worked on PCs for many years, that makes me think I'll be sticking to the older ones as long as I can.   

[Admiral]

Admiral, why can't you get your press to cycle faster than 45dz./hr?

The fastest I have seen that we could cycle our anatol was 67dz./hr. That press is all air.
We successfully ran the S.Roque at 1020pc./hr or 85dz/hr.(the S.Roque counts by pieces per hour by default) the other day for like 35 min. I was blown away, and we still had a dwell on. If we can keep that up and improve we may have to compete in the next M&R challenge!
One thing I noticed that seemed to speed things up, is the S.Roque by default prints as if you were printing WB ink. So it prints, lifts the head and while it is indexing it is also flooding the screen. Kinda backwards from what I was used to. It has the option to change it, but I got used to it quickly. I would imagine if other people set their press up to flood first or during indexing it may speed up the printing. We can't try it on our anatol because if you want to flood first, it puts a 1 second delay which defeats the purpose. I would be interested if others if they switch theirs if it speeds printing up?

flooding happens during indexing without having the flood set to front on the Diamondback

The very fastest I had it going as 47dz/hr and that's with a small print and the squeegee going very fast even if it was an A/C head.
It dry cycles at 52-53dz/hr.  It's just a slow entry level press.  Air indexing is not fun.

[IntegrityShirts]

I see how setting up multiple jobs on a press with the pallet carousel raising and lowering to the screens could be a problem...if the press were so uncalibrated and you're printing with very little/no off contact.  Has this been an issue at your shops with other machines that the pallet carousel raises and lowers?  Anyone?  I know there are some machines out there that aren't calibrated worth a damn so I do believe it can be an issue but surely nobody on this forum has a press that far out of whack. 

Ehemmmm..... It's called a anatol.

HEY! Not ALL Anatols are uncalibrated hunks of junk! The only time I have an issue with multi-job setup is with fleece or seams that kiss the under side of a screen they're not supposed to.  Occasionally I'll have a ganged screen's opposite end ghost on a shirt because I was too lazy to tape over it when I flipped it around.  I don't really see that as a reason to choose a press that doesn't table-up though.  I have had more than one job set up on my press less than 5 times and it was only because we either misprinted a few, were shorted garments, or defects, so I loaded up more screens to do another job.

55dz/hr is approaching my limit for loading accuracy and sustainability for continuous loading.

[TCT]

I see how setting up multiple jobs on a press with the pallet carousel raising and lowering to the screens could be a problem...if the press were so uncalibrated and you're printing with very little/no off contact.  Has this been an issue at your shops with other machines that the pallet carousel raises and lowers?  Anyone?  I know there are some machines out there that aren't calibrated worth a damn so I do believe it can be an issue but surely nobody on this forum has a press that far out of whack. 

Ehemmmm..... It's called a anatol.

HEY! Not ALL Anatols are uncalibrated hunks of junk! The only time I have an issue with multi-job setup is with fleece or seams that kiss the under side of a screen they're not supposed to.  Occasionally I'll have a ganged screen's opposite end ghost on a shirt because I was too lazy to tape over it when I flipped it around.  I don't really see that as a reason to choose a press that doesn't table-up though.  I have had more than one job set up on my press less than 5 times and it was only because we either misprinted a few, were shorted garments, or defects, so I loaded up more screens to do another job.

55dz/hr is approaching my limit for loading accuracy and sustainability for continuous loading.

 You are right I shouldn't of said that, guess it was meant to be more of a joke than anything. anatol can make a good machine, as long as it runs and there are no issues it can be fine. Heck, I am choosing to keep my old one and still use it, I can't justify letting it go for $10-$12K. 1 color & 2 color basic jobs I will run on that thing all day.  And in anatol's defence(can't believe I'm doing this) I did buy pretty much the smallest cheapest press they had. Nothing else would fit in our first location!

[IntegrityShirts]

You are right I shouldn't of said that, guess it was meant to be more of a joke than anything. anatol can make a good machine, as long as it runs and there are no issues it can be fine. Heck, I am choosing to keep my old one and still use it, I can't justify letting it go for $10-$12K. 1 color & 2 color basic jobs I will run on that thing all day.  And in anatol's defence(can't believe I'm doing this) I did buy pretty much the smallest cheapest press they had. Nothing else would fit in our first location!

Haha no offense taken!