Video Adobe Photo Shop Separations Channels VS Layers

[AdvancedArtist]

You be the judge....

The Separation Show 2 Simulted Process Color Separations Channels VS Layers

More to come.

[blue moon]

great video, lotsa good info!

pierre

[DannyGruninger]

I've watched most of the video but have not gotten to the end yet so apologies if this was covered. Seems like some great info though. With the way we have our current workflow setup our art is done in 2 ways. 1. Photoshop separations done in channels with each channel representing a designated PMS color, or 2. in illustrator with each color designated it's own PMS "spot" color. When the file is saved and then placed into our rip software, it recognizes all the designated colors(either ps channels or illy spots) and rips each individual layer. This has been what works in our shop so my question is what is the best method to transfer photoshop seps done in layers into a rip program? Would we need to save each file as a tiff or other extension? Does this change the sepped layer at all?

Just curious if we had a set of these "layer, not channel" seps in photoshop how we would get that file to our rip software since we do not print directly from photoshop or illy.

Thoughts?

[Screened Gear]

I was wondering the same thing. I hope they can share that info.

[blue moon]

same thoughts in my head for a month already. Tom says they have a way of doing it. Jeff mentioned assigning color through some filter/mask/transparency settings, but never really got further than that. I figured a very easy solution would be to just have a script or an action that creates channels based on your separations. You would not work in channels per se, but would have them to be able to print. That should be pretty easy to do.

pierre

[starchild]

Since each plate is done as a layer group (each color has it's adjustments clipped to that layer/color group and no further) to maintain the integrity of each plate/layer group, and not be sent to channels- want to avoid the color shifts... Each layer group will have to me merged down and saved as a tiff.
So duplicate a layer group to a new file then merge down, save as tiff..  Rinse and repeat for each plate.

[blue moon]

Since each plate is done as a layer group (each color has it's adjustments clipped to that layer/color group and no further) to maintain the integrity of each plate/layer group, and not be sent to channels- want to avoid the color shifts... Each layer group will have to me merged down and saved as a tiff.
So duplicate a layer group to a new file then merge down, save as tiff..  Rinse and repeat for each plate.

my thinking is that the issue with the channels is just the way it is presented on the screen, not that it actually changes the image. If that is the case, than all the work can be done in layers and with a quick action it can be exported to channels. No editing would actually be done there so it would not really matter if it looks different. This all depends on my assumption that no changes are made (which might be wrong) to the art, the issue is in the way it is displayed.

I think exporting individual files would be a chore.

pierre

[starchild]

The layers are actually made of adjustment layers and layer blend modes.. It cannot go to channels unless first merging down otherwise you will loose all your adjustments. In the FullSpectrum beer bottle seps you will see that the file was duplicated to a new file for each color in the sep and the layer magic happened from there. So each color was a different file. I agree you can use alpha channels, but for the sake of non destructive practices, duplicate each layer group to the new file, merge down then convert to an alpha channel. So as to keep the original sep intact. So no adjustments in the multi channel file. Just save to dcs and off to rip.

[blue moon]

The layers are actually made of adjustment layers and layer blend modes.. It cannot go to channels unless first merging down otherwise you will loose all your adjustments. In the FullSpectrum beer bottle seps you will see that the file was duplicated to a new file for each color in the sep and the layer magic happened from there. So each color was a different file. I agree you can use alpha channels, but for the sake of non destructive practices, duplicate each layer group to the new file, merge down then convert to an alpha channel. So as to keep the original sep intact. So no adjustments in the multi channel file. Just save to dcs and off to rip.

agreed! That will probably be the ticket unless they come up with something else.

pierre

[3Deep]

I,m a push button guy at seps and do my manual adjustments as needed for the final print to film, I must say reading this has really open my eyes, but I must say I,m still loving Photoshop and Illy Vectors for my art seps.  Yep I,m a low end sep guy really low, so for you all on the high end I think your going to be on a playing field all your own for the most part.  Great  post so far and like I said I picking up a few good things here that I can use.

Darryl

[mk162]

Dan, don't for a second think I am knocking you.  But could your opinion be coming from a guy that has literally mastered the art of channel seps?  You work is outstanding, but for us "occasional" seppers, would this be something that has a smaller learning curve and is easier to know what will happen on press?

Just wondering.

I mean I have sepped HSB straight from Corel and had amazing results on my first try.

[blue moon]

probably for the first time publicly, I will disagree with Dan.

few thoughts, the HSB is the color space, not printing inks. It makes it easier to see what colors are used in the art and thus easier to separate. I am certain that it will make it easier to see what's going on even for Dan and even if he still does it the way he has been doing it so far.
This in my eyes is an improvement no matter how you slice it.

HSB ink color space can be used too, all the examples from Tom and Jeff so far are working with it (Simple Seps actually offers additional shades so it would be extended HSB). I can not imagine the results of the HSB seps being on the same level as the stuff done by hand (disagreeing with Tom here, just call me an equal opportunity offender!). So while it is feasible, it would not be the ink model of choice for us.

all those filters in the layers are the same thing that has to be done in channels to compensate for the dot gain. The only difference is you can see the raw data, turn the adjustments on and of and make changes non destructively. For example, right now, If we are going to print a one color grayscale image and I know we have to stroke it twice to get good enough coverage in the solid areas, I drop the curve by 20% or so to compensate for the additional ink. The difference is that in the layers, I can see exactly what is going on as I separate and the adjustment curves can be turned on or off at the end.

Something that has not been mentioned here yet is that one can use a different adjustment curve to compensate for how far down the print is the particular color used. For example, in a seven color print that starts with a red, the ink that is first put down will be stepped on six times and the dot gain will be more than on the seventh color (which if done right should not need any compensation). With some measurement, actual values can be stored for the garment, ink type and the position and correct curves applied to each individual layer. Now, at least in theory, the print coming off the dialed in press should be super close to what is shown in the PS!

pierre

[AdvancedArtist]

We can agree to disagree and from here we can start going deeper. Actually very deep and we will over time. Either way the fruit coming out of our R&D is making the way for changes that I believe will benefit the Industry. What was once mysterious is perhaps now a little less mysterious. I am really enjoying the posts here as I can see the eyes and minds starting to open which is our objective. This is really where the intuitive side of HSB starts to shine.. As you start to understand and then dig deeper color will open up for you like the sun rising on the clear day.

Yes I have been passionate about this and excited but try to understand, I was locked in the dungeon of keep it simple because I do not want to sep raster for so long. Countless times I shrank back from doing things I wanted to do in design because I feared those channels. Yes I could sep in them but budgets and time constraints did not allow for that workflow. Now, well you know.

It can get really deep for example you can pull say the red or shade/blend of color... If you want to pick up more vibrancy you can take that shade or blend and separate that into 2, 3 or 4 separate tints of say a red or a blue. So you can start with standard 6 hues and bump then colors up to the 10 and 12 color prints also. I hope I am making sense.



 

[AdvancedArtist]

Question DTD do you understand anything about digital color? Not to upset you but this entire post is way way off the mark where science and math are concerned. Please go spend a few months learning about color models, color spaces, light vs ink, subtractive color, additive color.. etc and just look around you with HSB eyes. Then please come back and correct this post.

[Full-SpectrumSeparator]