honeycomb pallets???

[alan802]

I'm not sure who manufactured our pallets on the RPM, but we've gotten them way too hot before, well over 180 degrees probably when we were idiots but when I test them for flatness, they are flatter than some of the pallets I've measured on brand new equipment being installed.  I know the supposed benefits of honeycomb but the solid aluminums on our machine are unbelievably hardy and I don't know that the HC's would survive a summer in our shop when we're running two flashes on a 2k piece job.  I know I remember reading Rich's comments on the HC pallets and I just wonder why with as good as solid alums are, and the fragility of the HC, why does MHM use them?  Seems like they would benefit most shops if they did everything perfectly but in the real world, you don't have some guy with a temp gun standing over the pallets making sure they don't get to 180 in the middle of a job.  So why use them when you should engineer a press to withstand the maximum of what that press might experience in the average print shop?

[ebscreen]

why does MHM use them?

Extremely lightweight and nimble indexing system. My 10/12 uses 20 amps at 220 volts single phase. That's
less than a clothes dryer.

It has it's tradeoffs, like anything.

We fried 3 pallets when we first got the machine and didn't know what we were doing. Quartz can be confusing.
Since then we've regularly run 2 flashes on thousands of pieces and had no issues. They cool down very quickly.

[Admiral]

our Diamondback has honeycomb pallets, air indexer...

we bought 4 aluminum 16x22 pallets for the manual a year or so ago though

[ebscreen]

Are you sure they are honeycomb? I thought the D'backs came with composite?

[Admiral]

Are you sure they are honeycomb? I thought the D'backs came with composite?

oops you're right...hmm not sure why I thought honeycomb then

at over 400k prints though I have hardly had to adjust the pallets at all for parallel luckily(done once and only a tiny adjustment on a couple of them), not sure really since it sounds like every 100k they need to be done

I do wonder what benefits aluminum pallets have over our composite ones though. 

[mk162]

I'm not sure who manufactured our pallets on the RPM, but we've gotten them way too hot before, well over 180 degrees probably when we were idiots but when I test them for flatness, they are flatter than some of the pallets I've measured on brand new equipment being installed.

Well, that is probably not the case for a press coming out of the shop mine came out of.  They aren't the kindest to their equipment.  The press is printing great, I am just ironing out the little stuff.  The platens are warped...not bad, but I let my other press go with a set of 2 year old platens that I should have kept.

Oh, well, I'll just be spending more money at Action next month.

[Action1]

I'm not sure who manufactured our pallets on the RPM, but we've gotten them way too hot before, well over 180 degrees probably when we were idiots but when I test them for flatness, they are flatter than some of the pallets I've measured on brand new equipment being installed.  I know the supposed benefits of honeycomb but the solid aluminums on our machine are unbelievably hardy and I don't know that the HC's would survive a summer in our shop when we're running two flashes on a 2k piece job[/color].  I know I remember reading Rich's comments on the HC pallets and I just wonder why with as good as solid alums are, and the fragility of the HC, why does MHM use them?  Seems like they would benefit most shops if they did everything perfectly but in the real world, you don't have some guy with a temp gun standing over the pallets making sure they don't get to 180 in the middle of a job.  So why use them when you should engineer a press to withstand the maximum of what that press might experience in the average print shop?

You asked a question  that I would like to try to answer.
To my recollection, it was MHM who first introduced the material to our industry. Since then, while solid aluminum and rubber has been a standard for most automatic machinery, almost every press manufacturer in the world now employs honeycomb to some degree. MHM as we all know uses it exclusively and has done so since their beginning. Additionally, there are many other press manufacturers around the world that have standardized their machinery with this material.

We have some experience with Honeycomb Aluminum and it's application as printing pallets. We began manufacturing with this material in 1993. Since then we have shipped many 100's a year. The use of honeycomb in our industry has many benefits. The material is amazingly light weight, rigid, and flat. Additionally it's temperature compatibility with flashing has been well proven. There are 100's of shops around the world that only have honeycomb aluminum pallets. Many of them are running two flashes and more in an already hot environment. The material is holding up well. In our many years of pallet development, it has never been suggested that one material is able to produce more shirts than the other.

While we typically advise HC to be used only  for large format pallets, there are times that smaller pallets are made of honeycomb also. The exceptionally light weight material provides for an indexing operation that has the very least moment of inertia. This essentially means that it's easier to start to rotate and easier to stop it. Machines love this. They can start to spin quickly and stop on a dime with much less wear and tear on the indexing components. As for the print quality - the exceptional flatness and rigidity  ensure that your print density is extremely consistent throughout the print range. Often times on solid aluminum it's possible to see the print density decrease towards the outside of the pallet. Among other contributing factors, this can be due to  flex in the aluminum. The HC is far more rigid than the aluminum. The multiple layers of material are  stronger than the one layer of material.

In terms of flatness, there is none better that I have ever seen. When two pieces are put together, it forms a vacuum because of the almost  perfect congruency. This effect is noticeable in how the pieces have to be slid apart as opposed to pulled apart. When printing on them, you can be assured that your pallets are the most flat they can be.

There are downsides too of course - the honeycomb material is more expensive and it's not as durable as the solid. So - be careful with it. Once you pay the extra premium price it costs, you'll probably be careful with it anyway.

Anyway - I hope this added to your understanding of how and why it's used. Happy Friday.

[Action1]

I'm not sure who manufactured our pallets on the RPM, but we've gotten them way too hot before, well over 180 degrees probably when we were idiots but when I test them for flatness, they are flatter than some of the pallets I've measured on brand new equipment being installed.

Well, that is probably not the case for a press coming out of the shop mine came out of.  They aren't the kindest to their equipment.  The press is printing great, I am just ironing out the little stuff.  The platens are warped...not bad, but I let my other press go with a set of 2 year old platens that I should have kept.

Oh, well, I'll just be spending more money at Action next month.

Thank you sincerely for remembering us sir!. We look forward to hearing from you.

[mk162]

what sort of a deal can I get?  I just bought a full set of winged FB's and squeegees from you.

And I can support you guys since you don't screen print anymore.  (they quit back in the mid-90's)

[Action1]

what sort of a deal can I get?  I just bought a full set of winged FB's and squeegees from you.

And I can support you guys since you don't screen print anymore.  (they quit back in the mid-90's)

Hello MK - Thank you for your recent order. It was a pleasure to have you come and see our shop again.
Regarding a 'deal' - How about Door Number One - Door number Two - Or Door Number three? 

Regarding quitting screen printing in the mid-90's - You are correct sir - Action Screen Print was an Original Printer ( OP ) in Atlanta. With 4 Precision Hydraulic Ovals running two shifts, many of the areas largest orders were produced there. I started working in my dads shop at 11 years old ( 1976 ). After I finished my engineering studies, this took the place of that within a couple of years. This type of work is much more in line with my tastes and talents and so the decision was made to focus on this. I've always loved the industry and never regretted devoting my lives work to it. I'm a lifer.

[mk162]

why the late start?  I was sweeping floors at 5 or 6 and folding as soon as I could see the top of a table.

[Action1]

why the late start?  I was sweeping floors at 5 or 6 and folding as soon as I could see the top of a table.

ILMAO !!

I hear ya! - When my 25 cent allowance ran out and i had no candy - I started looking for things to do to get more money to buy more candy. My first real job was mowing lawns and cleaning gutters. I would do the front and back and sides for $7 and bag it. The good old days!

I think I prefer what I do now...although I don't see much sunshine anymore.

[Screened Gear]

Action,

Since you sell HC pallets what are the pallets you sell guaranteed to heat wise? If 180 then does that mean when being flashed? I know the head after the flash the board are in the 170 range for a second then drops fast (if I am remembering correctly).

[ScreenFoo]

Interesting question--I was actually just going to add--WHERE do you measure this temp?  The shirt? The rubber?  The bottom?

Seems like the top of the honeycomb would be the hottest, but you could only guess at that temp by measuring the top.

[Action1]

Action,

Since you sell HC pallets what are the pallets you sell guaranteed to heat wise? If 180 then does that mean when being flashed? I know the head after the flash the board are in the 170 range for a second then drops fast (if I am remembering correctly).

Good question Mr. Foo,  but difficulty to answer. We have never guaranteed these for a specific temperature. I myself have seen temperature readings across the board ( no pun intended ) that came in from different printers. The challenge is that the max temp seen by the HC peaks when it's still under the flash. When you shoot right into the flash your reading the energy from the flash. By the time the pallet comes out and parks for you to register temperature, the drop has been significant. That being said - we have an MSI quartz flash cure that we do material testing with. We have repeatedly heated the material to the point of discoloration and not seen deformation. In our years of history with the HC material, I can count the claims on one hand.