Home with sick kids.. how about a question day

[jsheridan]

Home all day with sick kids.. yeah!

SO lets have a question day..

ask away and I'll do my best to answer it, screen printing related of course 

[3Deep]

Ok here's one
How much ink could a screenprinter print if a screenprinter could print ink?

Have Fun with kids

Darryl

[JBLUE]

What should the first drink be at the show today? Jack, Rum, or beer? Please help.

Signed,

Confused

[Frog]

What's the easiest, fastest way to eliminate all posts by a trouble-making poster?

[jsheridan]

Ok here's one
How much ink could a screenprinter print if a screenprinter could print ink?

Have Fun with kids

Darryl

What's the screen tension and open mesh area %?

[Command-Z]

How long is a piece of string?

[inkman996]

I'll bite.

Since you once printed in my neck of the woods, what white ink did you prefer to use in the deep winter when the back rooms are 55 degrees and even the loosest white is semi cured concrete?

Second to that what modifier would you recommend to help cold whites in the winter, I have tried wilflex curable reducer but it really throws off the flash times. Thats a shame because it really makes a white nice when used correctly. Currently I just toss in a tiny bit of soft hand to help it run smoother.

[jsheridan]

What should the first drink be at the show today? Jack, Rum, or beer? Please help.

Signed,

Confused

A seasoned drinker knows that when the brown joins the game, their's no turning back so start with the light amber beers and work it up throughout the day and be sure to invite the mexicans just before going home so they start a fight and cause everyone to be evicted from the party the moment you walk into the hotel room. Refill with a bottle of pedialite and goto bed..

repeat next day..

 Enjoy and drink responsibly!!

[jsheridan]

What's the easiest, fastest way to eliminate all posts by a trouble-making poster?

Pull the tarp of the delorean you have in the backyard, fire it up and go back in time to before the poster was there and wipe out his posts.. then fly back in time for the dinner tonight.

Have fun!!

[jsheridan]

How long is a piece of string?

Are we talking braided material to form a rope or would you like that in C+ code?

[jsheridan]

I'll bite.

Since you once printed in my neck of the woods, what white ink did you prefer to use in the deep winter when the back rooms are 55 degrees and even the loosest white is semi cured concrete?

Second to that what modifier would you recommend to help cold whites in the winter, I have tried wilflex curable reducer but it really throws off the flash times. Thats a shame because it really makes a white nice when used correctly. Currently I just toss in a tiny bit of soft hand to help it run smoother.

Make a hot box.. some plywood to make a box, cut some hole the size of the buckets then put some 100w light bulbs along the bottom.. if you can still find them or a small ceramic heater from target on low. keep the temp in the box at 70 degrees and your ink will print like it's a warm summer day.

I like to use a dab of reducer or clear base depending on the ink.. some are creamy and they like to travel up squeegees so I want to break that stick and get some slide in the ink, some are stringy gooey that like to puddle away from the squeegee and again reducer can help to break that string while others seem chalky or thick and really need to be thinned. it's mostly a personal preference and related to the kind of printing you do. Manual printers prefer thinner inks as it's easier to print where the autos will pull HD in a single pass.

[alan802]

That was me yesterday, one kid and a sick wife (bigger baby than the 3 year old). 

I've been thinking about EOM, the percentages for different mesh counts, where the "sweet spot" is for each mesh count, exactly how stencil thickness affects ink deposit and where it's not important once you have a decent edge, so in your opinion, for a 110T, what EOMR do you think is the target?  15, 20, 25%?  Different for screens used for underbasing?  Stand alone white, pfp on darks?  We could get into all the different mesh counts and top colors on UB's, spot colors on light garments, but let's just stick with your low mesh, UB or stand alone white prints on darks.

I've got screens at 20% all the way up to 100%, and depending on the artwork, stencil thickness absolutely affects the ink deposit for some stuff, other, more open print areas aren't affected at all by stencil thickness and almost exclusively thread thickness.  That's what makes the discussion of proper EOM so difficult for me.  My personal opinion is for underbasing you don't need that much, 20-25% assuming you use the right mesh count, but say a white print on a black 50/50 shirt, you have to have enough ink down to keep the shirt from peaking through and those 40-50% EOM screens work so much better for those types of prints.

I've tried to measure the stencil thickness/ink deposit relation on tees but the difference in thickness of the shirt from spot to spot makes it almost impossible to do this.  Any suggestions on what substrate to use for this?  Pellons perhaps?  I don't know if I have any but I've got some embroidery backing next door which is the same thing.  I've got 2 100/55 screens coated, one coated 3/2, the other 2/1 and there is about 70 microns difference in stencil thickness between the two, same artwork obviously, both 26 newtons.  I was going to put these on the same printhead, with all the same settings.

Over the years I've coated screens with every different stencil thickness and we've had success with most everything that was at least 15% but there is a line where we stop seeing positives and that seems to be around 30% for your low mesh 100/55, 110/81, 123/70, 135/45, etc.  Some of the stencils in the 100% range become too thick and the surface tension and the distance the ink has to travel becomes problematic, not to mention the thickness of the ink deposit becomes ridiculous.

[inkman996]

That was me yesterday, one kid and a sick wife (bigger baby than the 3 year old). 

I've been thinking about EOM, the percentages for different mesh counts, where the "sweet spot" is for each mesh count, exactly how stencil thickness affects ink deposit and where it's not important once you have a decent edge, so in your opinion, for a 110T, what EOMR do you think is the target?  15, 20, 25%?  Different for screens used for underbasing?  Stand alone white, pfp on darks?  We could get into all the different mesh counts and top colors on UB's, spot colors on light garments, but let's just stick with your low mesh, UB or stand alone white prints on darks.

I've got screens at 20% all the way up to 100%, and depending on the artwork, stencil thickness absolutely affects the ink deposit for some stuff, other, more open print areas aren't affected at all by stencil thickness and almost exclusively thread thickness.  That's what makes the discussion of proper EOM so difficult for me.  My personal opinion is for underbasing you don't need that much, 20-25% assuming you use the right mesh count, but say a white print on a black 50/50 shirt, you have to have enough ink down to keep the shirt from peaking through and those 40-50% EOM screens work so much better for those types of prints.

I've tried to measure the stencil thickness/ink deposit relation on tees but the difference in thickness of the shirt from spot to spot makes it almost impossible to do this.  Any suggestions on what substrate to use for this?  Pellons perhaps?  I don't know if I have any but I've got some embroidery backing next door which is the same thing.  I've got 2 100/55 screens coated, one coated 3/2, the other 2/1 and there is about 70 microns difference in stencil thickness between the two, same artwork obviously, both 26 newtons.  I was going to put these on the same printhead, with all the same settings.

Over the years I've coated screens with every different stencil thickness and we've had success with most everything that was at least 15% but there is a line where we stop seeing positives and that seems to be around 30% for your low mesh 100/55, 110/81, 123/70, 135/45, etc.  Some of the stencils in the 100% range become too thick and the surface tension and the distance the ink has to travel becomes problematic, not to mention the thickness of the ink deposit becomes ridiculous.

Hey Alan if you are just trying to get accurate ink deposit thickness only then print on to smooth polyester. The ink sits right on top and is exact from piece to piece.

[Gilligan]

You could also get a quarter piece of plexi or some other plastic to act as a sandwich to keep it more "averaged" thickness of shirt.

If trying to read the shirt density with our meters that little needle point just won't cut it on knit fabric.  plastic would read right through and then you would know shirt is X and shirt + Ink is Y.  Do the math!

[jsheridan]

That was me yesterday, one kid and a sick wife (bigger baby than the 3 year old). 

I've been thinking about EOM, the percentages for different mesh counts, where the "sweet spot" is for each mesh count, exactly how stencil thickness affects ink deposit and where it's not important once you have a decent edge, so in your opinion, for a 110T, what EOMR do you think is the target?  15, 20, 25%?  Different for screens used for underbasing?  Stand alone white, pfp on darks?  We could get into all the different mesh counts and top colors on UB's, spot colors on light garments, but let's just stick with your low mesh, UB or stand alone white prints on darks.

I've got screens at 20% all the way up to 100%, and depending on the artwork, stencil thickness absolutely affects the ink deposit for some stuff, other, more open print areas aren't affected at all by stencil thickness and almost exclusively thread thickness.  That's what makes the discussion of proper EOM so difficult for me.  My personal opinion is for underbasing you don't need that much, 20-25% assuming you use the right mesh count, but say a white print on a black 50/50 shirt, you have to have enough ink down to keep the shirt from peaking through and those 40-50% EOM screens work so much better for those types of prints.

I've tried to measure the stencil thickness/ink deposit relation on tees but the difference in thickness of the shirt from spot to spot makes it almost impossible to do this.  Any suggestions on what substrate to use for this?  Pellons perhaps?  I don't know if I have any but I've got some embroidery backing next door which is the same thing.  I've got 2 100/55 screens coated, one coated 3/2, the other 2/1 and there is about 70 microns difference in stencil thickness between the two, same artwork obviously, both 26 newtons.  I was going to put these on the same printhead, with all the same settings.

Over the years I've coated screens with every different stencil thickness and we've had success with most everything that was at least 15% but there is a line where we stop seeing positives and that seems to be around 30% for your low mesh 100/55, 110/81, 123/70, 135/45, etc.  Some of the stencils in the 100% range become too thick and the surface tension and the distance the ink has to travel becomes problematic, not to mention the thickness of the ink deposit becomes ridiculous.

EOM is one of those weird standards that have to be isolated on a per shop basis. You may use Chromoline blue which is really thick while I use Ulano WR25 which is very thin. The end result would measure two distinctly different EOM's when coated the same. This is in part to why I recommend once you find an emulsion you like, stick with it as long as you can. You have to resist sales and the bucket of the month club. Once you're done this and tested every coated/printed EOM's across your mesh counts, you'll have a log of what different EOM's result in. Refer to this chart before you decide what mesh to use for that job, in Essene, you're engineering each print job to fit inside your shop's parameters. If you don't have this set, then every job you run will have a level of mystery to it as you try and hit that white on a 50/50 with a 1x2 screen and you can't quite get rid of the fibers so you p/f/p to get through the run with the intention of next time.. i'll try a higher EOM but when next time comes, you are or were 'to busy' to test last week so you grab a screen and shoot in the dark hoping for better results.

To best address the 110, first determine what you're going to print and then coat accordingly. it's such a wide used mesh count for everything from specialty inks to 1 hit whites that a set coating method won't fit all jobs. Coat these types of screen only after you know what's going on them. Takes some planning but when done right, you can get that 1 hit on 50/50 with the right mesh/tension/ink combo.

You can print on some transfer paper to measure your ink film thickness. Set your squeegee pressure as perfect as you can then print a real one, Pass it through the dryer and use your meter or you can even use a razor blade, cut the ink peel it back, then using a microscope loupe look at the edge and visually read the height.

The down side to thick stencil is the ability of the ink to get into and then out of the mesh tubes.. think of each 'hole' in the mesh as a capillarity tube and the ink is a cylinder inside that tube.. through the cap effect, when wet ink touches the shirt, it is pulled out of the tube to rest on the mesh.. if the ink isn't slippery enough to overcome the surface tension of the cap tube, old mesh gets rough and those little mini thread hairs grab onto the ink increasing the tension to the point of overload, the ink cylinder will the break off in the tube and leave ink behind.. next flood that tube is now overloaded and you start to get dot gain followed up by ghost edging and the end result to compensate for that is to add more squeegee pressure to get the ink to pass in a single hit and now you're crushing the ink into the shirt and the prints surface becomes rough.

same head testing is a good thing.. set your pressure then switch out screens.. you can even use different blades in dif heads.. go from soft to hard and your test sheet just tripled in design.