Screen Tensions....???

[Rocfrog]

Ok so I made little sand off's so we could flip the screens, we coated them using the "glisten" method. Had a job this morning so we thought we try the new screens.....

Well I was excited when I saw this on the first screen.....





you can actually see and feel an edge.....

Still need to increase the time a little bit but it's close...


but then my excitement quickly was deflated once we actually printed it....

Here is the back after print/flash and only one swipe...




So we hit it again...


Here it is after the dryer...






To me it looks exactly like the other one I posted eariler, don't really see a change in the print.

Here's some shots of the front...

Print/flash....2swipes




second print....2swipes




And after it's been thru the dryer.



So not really sure how I feel now....

**EDIT** sorry for the crappy cell phone pics....
Nick

[alan802]

What mesh count are you using to print white on darks?  A little bit more EOM really isn't going to change the print much if you're still using the wrong mesh count.

[inkman996]

If you can get the quality you are looking for with one hit flash one hit then you are in a decent place. I hope you are not thinking you are going to get one hit whites all of a sudden, thats not realistic at all. 90% of us printing a big bold white on a shirt as dark as your pic will require a hit flash hit. Personally I didn't think that first pic looked all that bad assuming your next hit after flash completed it.

But you are also using halftones and big bold areas all on the same screen, that is something we would never do not on dark any ways. The solid areas would always be on a lower count mesh and those half tones on a much higher mesh count.

Not knowing what mesh count the screen is in your pic I cant say if thats a good EOM for my personal taste. If thats a 110 then no its not enough in my shop, if its a 160 it still looks a little light for me personally.

Trust me do not throw this all out because you did not get the results you expected first time, there is still so many other variables to work on once you get many of them in place it gets much better.

[Rocfrog]

What mesh count are you using to print white on darks?  A little bit more EOM really isn't going to change the print much if you're still using the wrong mesh count.

The halftone back was on a 230 and the front is on a 110 (I think, it is one of our new re-screened ones and the writing has disappeared)....

If you can get the quality you are looking for with one hit flash one hit then you are in a decent place. I hope you are not thinking you are going to get one hit whites all of a sudden, thats not realistic at all. 90% of us printing a big bold white on a shirt as dark as your pic will require a hit flash hit. Personally I didn't think that first pic looked all that bad assuming your next hit after flash completed it.

But you are also using halftones and big bold areas all on the same screen, that is something we would never do not on dark any ways. The solid areas would always be on a lower count mesh and those half tones on a much higher mesh count.

Not knowing what mesh count the screen is in your pic I cant say if thats a good EOM for my personal taste. If thats a 110 then no its not enough in my shop, if its a 160 it still looks a little light for me personally.

Trust me do not throw this all out because you did not get the results you expected first time, there is still so many other variables to work on once you get many of them in place it gets much better.

I wasn't looking for an AMAZING change...I was hoping to at least see some change....

I have thought about doing the solids and the halftones on two different screens but around here that would probably be frowned upon. The other thing about that is I would have to figure out how to output the films separately/properly....

I'm far from giving up. Your right there are a ton of variables that still could be "wrong", but I am going to assume that this is at least in the right direction....I think...I hope...

Nick

[inkman996]

The halftone back was on a 230 and the front is on a 110 (I think, it is one of our new re-screened ones and the writing has disappeared)....

For a 230 mesh then that first hit of white is not bad at all. I wouldn't expect much more than that but again you are fighting a battle of trying to get decent half tones on the screen and a solid white print, those two together simply do not mix. If you have an auto then use more screens, doing things the correct and best way should never be frowned upon.

[Rocfrog]

This was printed on our Auto, we have an M&R Sportsman 8clr 10pallets only one flash on it though.

Interesting about the two screens, I mean it makes since but that means a one color becomes two technically.....

Nick

[3Deep]

Squeegee angle and print pressure/speed also plays a big role in how prints look.....

Darryl

[inkman996]

This was printed on our Auto, we have an M&R Sportsman 8clr 10pallets only one flash on it though.

Interesting about the two screens, I mean it makes since but that means a one color becomes two technically.....

Nick

It becomes two colors technically but honestly its just an easier way and better way to make your product look better. In your case you could have had two white screens, one with the halftones and the open areas and the other just the open areas. Flash in-between of course. The halftones do not need a flash and rehit because you want to keep the dot gain down anyways. Some shops charge for the hi lite white screens some do not, we do not. We are saving on time and frustration and already getting a bit more $$ for the flash charges.

[Dottonedan]

I'm not sure what your original art was to look like. Wanna post a jpg?  That can tell us more also.  For example, we don't know how light the halftone percentages (were supposed to be) in the original art. Printing twice will add some tone,  making ti look more filled in. To prepare for that, you just cut back "lets say" what is to print as 20% back to 15 or even 12% considering you will more than likely print, flash print.


Did you already do any % cut backs in advance?


The coverage didn't look that bad here as Inkman said. It all depends on what you were shooting for.

[Rocfrog]

Here's the art work....



Originally the outline of the A is 100% solid and the right side of the A is at 55%, then when I placed it behind the text I dropped the whole thing down to 35%....

Nick

[alan802]

As I reread your post and look at the pics, the back print with the names looking like it does on a 230 with one stroke, flash, one stroke isn't surprising or out of ordinary for that mesh count and thick white ink.  You simply have to use too much pressure to print most white ink through a 230 and have the ink still sitting on the top of the shirt.  It has been done, but it rarely is done...if that makes sense.  Now if you printed the front through a 110/81 with 2 strokes, flash, 2 strokes and that's all you got on the shirt then something for sure doesn't look right.  Perhaps most of the ink of the first 2 strokes is going into and through the garment or something else is happening.  Honestly we would get that opacity with one stroke through a 110/81, 123/55, 135/48 and maybe even a 150/48 and through an 83 or 100/55 it would likely be a one hit white.  It also looks like the print is a little rough telling me that your ink isn't shearing properly, which is a result of poor tension and off contact for the most part.  That's one of those things that rarely comes up when we're talking tension, but the ability of the mesh to get the hell out of the way and the ink to not be rough is very important.  The front print doesn't look bad, but the fact that you could get that amount of opacity with 1/2 or 1/4 of the work is what is bothersome.  I know most shops just double stroke most everything and move on, but with a little more prep work and mesh selection you really don't have to.

On the subject of the back and 2 screens, that's what we normally do when there is a need to have a halftone background or areas with bold areas that need to be opaque.  I'd have put the "A" on a 180-205, one stroke and be done with it, then the names on anything from 100/55 to 135/48 and done a one hit white.  No doubt you can achieve a one hit on the names, maybe even as high up as a 150/48 with the right stencil thickness.

But all this doesn't mean crap if your trying to do all of this with 15 newton screens.  With a 15 newton 110/81, you should be able to do that front print with 1 stroke, flash, 1 stroke, easily, even on a black 50/50 crappy shirt.  Now we also need to take a look at your off contact and squeegee pressure, they are just as important as tension.  Give us some feedback on what pressure your running in your chopper cylinders if your press has squeegee regulators?  If you don't have squeegee regulators...we'll just have to work with what you've got and make up for it best we can with tension, squeegee, off contact and better mesh selection.

[Dottonedan]

Great post Alan. Great contribution.  This whole thread is great. These are the post that will hang around via the bookmarks forever. Hundreds if not thousands will benefit for years to come.

[Rocfrog]

Ok Alan...to kind of answer your questions...because I'm not really sure how to answer them  I set the front back up real quick and took a small video and a few pics.

Here's the video...

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Rocfrog/media/Screen%20Print/New%20coatings/IMG_8468_zps31703e97.mp4.html

And here are the pics....





Not real sure how to show off contact....

Great post Alan. Great contribution.  This whole thread is great. These are the post that will hang around via the bookmarks forever. Hundreds if not thousands will benefit for years to come.

I agree 100%!!!! I think I have learned more on this thread than the whole two years I've been here! I want to thank everyone that has contributed!

Nick

[Screened Gear]

Not enough pressure. You also need more angle on the squeegee. Slow it down a little also. 15 newtons is fine and from looking at your photos your EOM is fine also.

After your print stroke your screen should be almost clean. You still have a ton of ink on the screen, meaning your not puttin enough pressure on the printing edge. The open area of the screen (the stencil) should be clear of ink after the print. I am guessing you have a ton of ink in the stencil still.

If you look at the printed shirt you will see soft edges. This could be caused by low screen tension (as many have said) but it is also cause by not having enough pressure on the squeegee. Ink will migrate under the screen when printing too soft.

Change those and you should be fine. As long as your ink is mixed well and flows like it should.

[Screened Gear]

Your off contact also looks way to high. (that also causes soft edges on your print)