Waterbase PMS color matching... 12/14

[DCSP John]

Hi everyone..

I have a big job that requires a few specific PMS color matches (water base)
Can anyone refer me to an East Coast vendor who could mix specific colors for me?

Thanks.  John @ DC Shirt & Print

[tonypep]

Probably no one will do this or at least stand behind the formulas as so many variables will affect final outcome. Personally I would be more comfortable with my own formulas. Most ink companies use more pigment components than I would and often use white (or too much white) in their formulas. Is this DC or WB on lights?

[DCSP John]

Hi Tony..

Thanks for your reply. WB on light shirts.

We have the Rutland WB mixing system, but are not entirely confident that our mixes will
be as accurate as needed, especially if we have to mix up more mid run... We are relatively new
to the WB/DC system. We are never held to specific requests for exact matches, so we have always had some latitude
in color matching. This customer has mandated closest match possible.

My first inclination is to go it alone and mix the ink here.. but as a safety net I figured it might
be easier to buy the pre-mixed colors... Time to be a little more confident in our mixing ability..

Thanks.  John @ DC Shirt & Print

[ZooCity]

Your supplier will just be using the same system most likely, so I say go for it.  You would have to tweak their mix with your pigments anyhow.   Just record your mixes well and do no add anything without recording it, tempting though it may be.  You'll have repeatability, no problem, if you don't break that rule on the initial mix.

I've been meaning to start a thread on this, but I've found that you can in fact hit a wall with rfu systems and wb trying to achieve deep, rich wb colors on lights, not so much whites but def lights.  I struggled recently running un-activated Texcharge on Natural to hit the colors I mixed, they lightened so significantly after curing that I was amazed and had to use some color tricks to pull it off as I had no way to further saturate the ink with pigment.  That was weird b/c the activated mixes on darks have been mostly great.

The WB99 is PC I believe so you can do it with a little color savvy and knowledge of how far you can load your base with pigment, I would load heavily in the case of that deep kelly. 

[tonypep]

Perfect example John. Too much white and too many pigments. Ideally this color can be made with two pigments plus base and a titch of white for a little opacity. Most colors can be made in this manner (but may also use black to shade) The green needed a hue adjustment with yellow. I can practically see how this formula came about. The formulator over saturated with yellow and had to go back and blue it up.
If it were me I would back off on the green , cut the white in half, and take maybe a gram off the yellow, there fore eliminating the blue altogether.

[ZooCity]

Tony's got the wisdom.  I didn't even look at the formula but, for all of ours I always cut way back or omit entirely the black and white pigments, you can add them back at the end if needed.  Looking at 329 in my swatch book I see no need for white, or very, very little.

[Prosperi-Tees]

This is not the exact one but this is what pretty much taught me how to mix colors. You have to experiment because different pigments have different strengths. But studying this and experimenting allowed me to become one of the best color matchers in the paint industry in my town.

[tonypep]

Heres my reason the formulators are adding white. If they do not the wet color is completely transparent and will appear significantly darker in hue than a printed and cured swatch. In other words it's faster to arrive at an approved  color. They aren't used to matching these inks and this is a bit of a bandaid. They do not realize that white can cause the inks to gum up and dry quicker.

[ZooCity]

Heres my reason the formulators are adding white. If they do not the wet color is completely transparent and will appear significantly darker in hue than a printed and cured swatch. In other words it's faster to arrive at an approved  color. They aren't used to matching these inks and this is a bit of a bandaid. They do not realize that white can cause the inks to gum up and dry quicker.

That makes sense but I've found that our WB needs a little deepening/darkening, curing lightens it far too much.  Then again, all these inks were intended to be activated, I'm sure that plays in. 

[DCSP John]

Hi Gents..

A QUIK follow up to this thread. Our house cooked color mixes were pretty much dead-on
matches to our Pantone guides.  Next Level, light grey, 700 pcs.  Rutland QUIK cure base.

Thanks for the feed back. You guys are a real wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your input.

John

[DCSP John]

bump

[ebscreen]

We pretty much use the IMS as a starting point and go from there.

Tony's giving the ink manufacturers the benefit of the doubt. I always
thought they added so much white just so they could sell more of it.

Rutland's software doesn't work on Windows 7, and I hate hate hate their
new online matching program.

I added an ink mixing/labeling function to our database. Stock and custom
mixes can be entered once (by percent) and then called from the press sheet
and the label/paperwork printed with whatever quantity entered. Keeps track
of what jobs certain mixes have been used for as well. Our own library
if you will.


Lastly John, keep an eye on your pigments. As the liquid level drops, the air space
increases, and things start drying out. Dried pigment will piss in your cereal all day long.
We've taken to filtering with standard paint filters.

[tonypep]

Mustard squeezers and toothpicks will eliminate this. Yes you have to funnel it in but once its done its done and it lasts months. Beats straining by a lot

[ebscreen]

All our WB pigments are in squeeze bottles with the caps on. We were still having issues
though it might have been from drying in the bucket before we transferred to the bottles.
Come to remind me, one bottle of black pigment with the flip top straight from Rutland
had way many dried particles. Ended up tossing that one.

Filtering hasn't been that bad actually. I dreaded adding it as it seemed like hell, but it's more
like milking a cow.