About to buy an M&R Chameleon or a Sidewinder - Have a few Questions First

[prozyan]

I loved my Vastex, though it was heavy and tiring on bigger orders.  The micros on it are the best I have seen.

[Denis Kolar]

It looks like you are set on M&R, great machines and great support.
But.......
If you did not already, check the Antec Legend in person. Try to spin it and try to set it up. You have to think about the long runs, turning the press after 6-7 hour runs is not easy. Legend is one of the lightest, if not the lightest turning press on the market with great micros.

Just saying

[Croft]

I bought a used Chameleon and really like it over the HIX's I used to have , Really wish it had air clamps because it doesn't really work well with a triloc,  and the screw down holders are a pain in the a$$ the threads bind up after a while with lint etc and need to be removed cleaned and replaced. Overall sturdy press.
P.S. not sure if your close to the Niagara Falls /Buffalo boarder but there is a Sidewinder and fusion for sale used listed up here I can send you the link they look pretty new.

[tonypep]

Not to take anything away from Rich and his deals, but have you looked at any of these presses up close and personal? Maybe changed a board, pushed a squeegee, or spun some heads and boards?

Also, if you want a really good deal, what about used? Rarely should you have to pay more than 60% of the new price for a like-new press.

Might of mentioned this elsewhere but I have a six color original Hopkins side clamp manual that just needs a little dusting off. Lightly used and built like a tank. 3 point micros and nylon bolt reg.
Should take rollers up to 23x 31. Pics later this week. Awesome press. I have two others in current daily use.

[Nation03]

It looks like you are set on M&R, great machines and great support.
But.......
If you did not already, check the Antec Legend in person. Try to spin it and try to set it up. You have to think about the long runs, turning the press after 6-7 hour runs is not easy. Legend is one of the lightest, if not the lightest turning press on the market with great micros.

Just saying

Agreed. If you're strictly a manual operation, Antec Legend is a number 1 contender. I print on one all day every day, and even though manual printing is tiring no matter what, I can't imagine spinning a heavier press.

With that being said, I have printed on a Sidewinder and really did love it. Great design, nice features and an awesome company backing the press. I printed on a 6/6 model with side clamps and it had M3 rollers in all the heads, so yeah, it was HEAVY to spin the heads, but I'm certain the M3's had something to do with that. I was, however, very impressed that the Sidewinder held the M3's without any issues. The table felt pretty heavy to spin as well, but since I was at a show when I saw it, they had the tri-loc set up, so I'm sure that added weight as well.

So although I do love the Legend, I think the Sidewinder is my favorite press out there. I'd like my next press to be a 6/4 sidewinder with airclamps. Pricy, but worth it in my opinion.

[sonicweaponprinting]

So I think its now down to deciding which configuration, 6/6, or 6/4. I also love the antec legend, and hear that it is legendary for its solid registration, just not sure about boards compatible w/ other m&r equipment and the tri-loc system.

Can anyone give me their arguments on running a 6/6 vs a 6/4 for an all day operational manual shop (who hopefull plans to go auto from this making me enough to future upgrade)

I am sure there will be great reasons, I am told I would really only need the 4, but would the 6 stations, and extra cool down time really be that beneficial? Is the 2 extra boards really that much heavier?

What are your arguments on a 6 station vs 4 for all day usage.

- Shawn

[Croft]

Have run and owned both I would go 6/6 the ladies that print for me on the Chameleon haven't complained or noticed a problem with weight. We have needed that configuration for a couple odd ball jobs where the spot needed to be somewhere other than straight across from the printer. I also think there is less movement needed and less of a push through to the next indent.

[sonicweaponprinting]

Have run and owned both I would go 6/6 the ladies that print for me on the Chameleon haven't complained or noticed a problem with weight. We have needed that configuration for a couple odd ball jobs where the spot needed to be somewhere other than straight across from the printer. I also think there is less movement needed and less of a push through to the next indent.

so, you think a chameleon vs. a sidewinder then? hard to tell the way its worded.

'I also think theres less movement needed and less of a push through to the next index'

do you mean the Sidewinder vs. the Chameleon? (please clarify) Thanks!

[ZooCity]

6 stations.  More options for placement, more cool down time and yes, less travel to index. 

We have our 6 setup so that you can run it in different configurations feeding either of two dryers with 4 stations available to flash at and three different locations you can print from.   Wouldn't be able to do that with a 4 station. 

You can always run a 6 as a 3 but running a 4 as a 2 is kinda silly.

[sonicweaponprinting]

6 stations.  More options for placement, more cool down time and yes, less travel to index. 

We have our 6 setup so that you can run it in different configurations feeding either of two dryers with 4 stations available to flash at and three different locations you can print from.   Wouldn't be able to do that with a 4 station. 

You can always run a 6 as a 3 but running a 4 as a 2 is kinda silly.

That's the kind of advice I am talkin about! Efficiency is a huge thing to consider for me, as I'll be probably keeping my workhorse 4/1 for sampling or just for small simple jobs that don't require flashing, I like the way that sounds being able to feed two dryers.

[Gabe]

It looks like you are set on M&R, great machines and great support.
But.......
If you did not already, check the Antec Legend in person. Try to spin it and try to set it up. You have to think about the long runs, turning the press after 6-7 hour runs is not easy. Legend is one of the lightest, if not the lightest turning press on the market with great micros.

Just saying

Agreed. If you're strictly a manual operation, Antec Legend is a number 1 contender. I print on one all day every day, and even though manual printing is tiring no matter what, I can't imagine spinning a heavier press.

With that being said, I have printed on a Sidewinder and really did love it. Great design, nice features and an awesome company backing the press. I printed on a 6/6 model with side clamps and it had M3 rollers in all the heads, so yeah, it was HEAVY to spin the heads, but I'm certain the M3's had something to do with that. I was, however, very impressed that the Sidewinder held the M3's without any issues. The table felt pretty heavy to spin as well, but since I was at a show when I saw it, they had the tri-loc set up, so I'm sure that added weight as well.

So although I do love the Legend, I think the Sidewinder is my favorite press out there. I'd like my next press to be a 6/4 sidewinder with airclamps. Pricy, but worth it in my opinion.

Hello Nation 3
between antec and sidewinder which one has the best micros?
since setting screens up is a time consuming job
just curious
Gabe

[RICK STEFANICK]

heres my take.. M/R is one great company and i love that chameleon.. never had a complaint from anyone male or female about running one. they also hold their value extreamly well.  the antec on the other hand are much lighter(the micros work really really good once you get used to them) and hold super tight registration without alot of maintenace, pallet levelling etc. over all unless you have m/r autos or are planning on buying one(so everything like pallets and stuff are interchangable) i would recommend the antec. in a manual. 

[Nation03]

It looks like you are set on M&R, great machines and great support.
But.......
If you did not already, check the Antec Legend in person. Try to spin it and try to set it up. You have to think about the long runs, turning the press after 6-7 hour runs is not easy. Legend is one of the lightest, if not the lightest turning press on the market with great micros.

Just saying

Agreed. If you're strictly a manual operation, Antec Legend is a number 1 contender. I print on one all day every day, and even though manual printing is tiring no matter what, I can't imagine spinning a heavier press.

With that being said, I have printed on a Sidewinder and really did love it. Great design, nice features and an awesome company backing the press. I printed on a 6/6 model with side clamps and it had M3 rollers in all the heads, so yeah, it was HEAVY to spin the heads, but I'm certain the M3's had something to do with that. I was, however, very impressed that the Sidewinder held the M3's without any issues. The table felt pretty heavy to spin as well, but since I was at a show when I saw it, they had the tri-loc set up, so I'm sure that added weight as well.

So although I do love the Legend, I think the Sidewinder is my favorite press out there. I'd like my next press to be a 6/4 sidewinder with airclamps. Pricy, but worth it in my opinion.

Hello Nation 3
between antec and sidewinder which one has the best micros?
since setting screens up is a time consuming job
just curious
Gabe

Antec micros are top notch. Zero play when turning them - You move them, the head moves with it, lock it down and there isn't any shifting.  I didn't get a chance to tinker with the Sidewinder micros, but I've heard they aren't as slick as the Antec micros, but if you're getting a sidewinder with a tri-loc than your micro adjustments should be minimal anyway.

Like stated earlier, Antec Legend will hold perfect registration, with very little maintenance. Ours is old and needs to be calibrated, but it still holds registration.

[alan802]

We don't print much manually, but I've never had a need for 6 stations and we do lots of oddball stuff on the manual, that's basically what it's there for, weird stuff.  Maybe if we used it for more production type work I'd see needing 6 stations instead of 4, but we only use 3 stations max right now...print, flash, cool down.  On longer runs I guess the extra cool down stations could be a benefit.  But if it comes down to having to buy the lesser press and getting a 6/6, or getting the press you really want but only in the 6/4 combo, I'd go with the 6/4 any day of the week.  But if your budget allows, and you think you'll benefit from the 2 extra stations then go for it.  I'm not sure how much 2 more stations would cost, could be 600 just in adult, youth, and sleeve pallets for the extra 2 stations, plus whatever the manufacturer charges, which is probably 500 or more if I had to guess. 

Just when you think buying a manual would be an easy decision, it's not.  Not as tough as buying that first auto but it's still a weighty decision that can make a huge difference in your success.

[Binkspot]

Keep in mind if you get a 6/4 now you can buy two additional pallet arms, pallets, etc later down the road. Its just a matter of where the arms are bolted. The 6/4 and 6/6 use the same structure just less two arms.