Led exposure unit?

[LDTRONIX]

You got it
I put the requests in, so here come more members into the greatest forum I know of...
Some of you are asking for a video..  This is an exposure test at the bottom of the screenhttp://www.ldtronix.com/baby-joe-2000.html

[Gilligan]

Please address the questions of overlap and distance between LEDs.

Not at all trying to be a prick.  Just trying to best understand this technology and how it can serve me better than a single point light source.

I'm a HUGE fan of LEDs.  I use them everywhere and see them in even more places (my old profession of stage lighting as well).

[Screened Gear]

I just read LED's cause Cancer. (I read it right after I wrote it here.)

Why does it look like a scanner from world war 2. Why can't it look futuristic and cool. Sorry the designer side of me would never buy it. At least paint it a cool color or but some chrome and flames on it.

Like others I can't see it not having high and low points of light. Even with directional light you have to have over lap to make sure all areas are covered. The over laps would expose faster. That is why single point light source is so important.  I would like to see some tests with very fine dots. Like a 55 lpi gradient from 100 to 0. On a 305 screen.

I think you have a great product and if you can prove it works you will have a great seller. Just be careful with how you sell it. Your reputation is on the line.

[LDTRONIX]

Gilligan
You asked about overlap and distance between LEDs.
Its all about balance more LED is not always better.
No simple answer here so here I go...
Placement of the LED is very important, when designing a proper exposure table.
Some of the things to consider include.
LED power output, lens shape, Nm, and quality of material they are made from. 
Type of power supply used. Current flow is everything with a LED. (Caution DIY guys… You can blow out a LED or all of your LEDs in a second if you connect then wrong, or over drive them!)   Also with high wattage LEDs  you must consider cooling them and the space required to do that.
Table distance from LED
Glass thickness and type
I could go on for days
Any of these factors can and will effect things like.
The time required to shoot your screens, and the quality of exposure what I would call the multi-point effect, and LED life.

In reference to how LEDs can serve me better than a single point light source.

Well….Here I go again
If you get everything right like in the case of The Baby Joe 2000.
The light blends so evenly, you get the same effect as a single point light source.
We need to change the way we looked at this in the past.
You can not compare LEDs to florescent lighting they are completely different animals.
An LED by design is directional, it does not send out light in a 360 degree pattern.
A florescent lights outputs light in a 360 degree pattern and uses a reflector to help make it more directional.
Fact is a reflector will cause the light to scatter on many angles. No matter how great of a reflector you have.
Now compare LEDS to a single point lighting options….
This is where I wish I could draw..
Your single point, also outputs light in a 360 degree pattern and has a reflector.
Now imagine a line between a single point light, and the side edge of your table.
See that angle now imagine that line/beam of light going through your screen on your table, add in your reflector scattering light ever further.  The bigger the table the bigger the problem.
All this adds to what I like to like to call the single point effect.
Ever wonder why it needs to be so far away, well it because it helps minimize this effect.. The farther you get the weaker your scattered light gets. The less the effect will be..
Like it or not it is not a perfect system. Not by a long shot..
If it was you would have never seen a bad exposure, but you do right?….
All that said…..
People who used both the single point system, and the Baby Joe 2000   feel it is better then any single point they used in the last 30+ years..
 
With all the benefits of LEDs.
Long life.  50,000-100,000hrs with little output loss….
Lower wattage requirements.
Your exposure unit is not hot enough to fry a turkey.
You don’t need the AC fighting to keep up with the turkey fry / single point light.
Between bulb cost,     A/C cooling bills,     Power usage,    and down time dealing with the dead or fading bulbs and adjusting for it.
The Baby Joe 2000 system pays for itself. http://www.ldtronix.com/baby-joe-2000.html
Only way it could be better is if I came to your place and worked it for free…
I hope this helped……Can we post this on a new thread like LEDs 101 I think with a photo or two it could be allot shorter and clear…lol… 

[abchung]

Hi LDTRONIX,

I strongly believe if you get one of the senior member of the forum to test it out and if they get it to work. You would be selling it like hot cakes. Other than that, it would be hard for people to part with their hard earned cash for something that is unproven.

Good Luck.
Anthony

[mk162]

I agree, you have to be fairly close to at least 1 member around here. 

[screenprintguy]

just out of curiosity, have you considered shops that have gone to cts, no glass or draw down needed in the exposure process. Thanks for posting the video link.

[alan802]

Get as many of your current customers to join this forum and tell us their experience.  I have no doubts that the technology will work, but you have to have all your ducks in a row and it looks a lot more difficult than the typical DIY job most of us try to do in our shops.  I'd love to see pictures of the insides as well.

[JBLUE]

Will one of these be at the ISS show this weekend?

[Gilligan]

Mr. Sales (I don't know if that is your name, but your email address has that as the prefix),

Please don't doubt my sincerity of LEDs... they are certainly part of the future.  I also believe that this unit is likely (if it works as well as  you say it does), better than any fluorescent unit out there.

Now as far as single point... this is where I'm still confused.

I'm following you to a degree on your description (I can't draw either... does ASCII count?) but I have some reservations about your description.

What you have with LED is \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/  Except that it overlaps an unknown amount as you still haven't answered that and the spacing is still of question.  This is far better than flouro, but on the other hand you have *gulp*

_______________  <--- Table
\                           /
 \                         /
  \                       /
   \                     /


             \/

I snipped out a bit of the middle but you see where it is going.  That light doesn't scatter much and is coming from a much more directional bit than a flouro unit and we don't know what your directional is because you haven't give us much details on spacing, overlap or even angle of your LEDs.

The distance on a single point light is for coverage not to reduce scatter, it's to it the table with enough of the focused beam (that is the reason for the reflector and though in essence it's 360 it's not really 360 in the end since it's immediately bounced back up.)  No, it's not perfect but there really isn't a perfect solution when it comes to using light to do such a task... even in the LED world.  It's very possible that your LED unit is better if the beam is narrow enough and spaced properly.  I've read on this page suggestions that your unit scans across with a strip of LEDs?  Is this correct or is it a solid "wall" of LEDs that sit under the glass?  Scanning doesn't reduce undercutting it actually would increase it as every bit of your exposure is now hit from multiple angles instead of just the bits that don't happen to reside on top of an LED... it does cut cost significantly and would be just fine put up against a flouro system as they aren't any better as far as undercutting.

If you had a focused single point LED system, I'd not be having this discussion with you as I do agree LEDs are WAY more economical.  But lets face it... it's WAY more economical to run out into the sun with our screens to expose them... just not very practical and therefor people are willing to pay good money for a proper MH single point.  My exposure unit is the most expensive piece of gear in my entire shop right now and I don't let go of money easily.  One might think that would cause me to be entrenched in my idea of what a good exposure unit is... but I question all the time if I shouldn't have bought X or Y.  I'm ready to swap that puppy out if I can find a better deal for a decent price as I know I can get more than what I paid for this exposure unit right now.  No sweat off my back.

Right now, we just want more info and more math/science behind your unit.  Send one to Pierre and let him test it out... that guy has exposure dialed in like a mad scientist.  He will give it a VERY thorough and professional review and if it gets his seal of approval you would probably sell enough just from that endorsement to cover your shipping to and from him... hell if you were really confident in the unit you could give it to him and know that you will make way more than your money back on a positive endorsement.  Here's a hint, he's won awards for his prints, people respect him.

[amrcnscreen]

I bought a Baby Joe 2000 about 8 months ago and I have to say it is every thing this guy claims it to be. I’ve been in the business for about 12 years now and 8 of those years I was using a 5k metal halide unit with cost me a ton in electricity costs not to mention  having to change to bulb every 18 or so months which cost about $275.00 each so I decided to do a little research on the forums and noticed that people were using UV fluorescent tubes to expose screens and decided to give that a try and in the beginning I thought I had the answer.but as time went on about a year I found it to not be very reliable some bulbs would not start or start half way through the exposure resulting in a ruined screen and a lot of wasted time and money. So I decided to do a little more research and came across this guy at LDTronix selling these LED Units and I gave him a call and he explained how it all worked and also offered to demo it for me being from the next state over I thought that was nice of him. So we set up an appointment and I was very impressed with the results enough to buy one! Although it looked like a basic table top unit nothing special on the outside, it shot perfect halftones extremely fast I mean in 10 seconds with no undercutting, I was previously shooting for about 3 to 6 or so minutes on my UV fluorescent system with I thought was fine but again not very reliable,  I print every thing from 60 mesh athletic prints to 4 to 8 color Process using high mesh 305 s & 230s  etc.. with perfect results every time. I believe he is totally on to something here. Again I only had the unit for about 8 months now so I cant say how it will do long term but I haven’t had change my exposure  times at all yet, I don’t have any complaints yet it works great.  I love using this unit.

[mk162]

how fast is it compared to the 5k unit?

[LDTRONIX]

again wish I could draw

The reflector on your single point does send light out in every direction....  simple test for you would be to cover the front half of your bulb and look at the light you get......the light is going off in every direction true or false...

Exact led placement.....Again it depends on many variables. 

If you are asking how exactly My BABY J2K works (design specs)

I would consider that a bad idea, because I'll have 1000 people calling me a lair when their table is working poorly.

Fact is LEDs of this type any look the same when off, but when on they are not all created equal..  INFACT you can not even tell the color of light they will make when they are off.....

Some look great exactly like the ones used in the BABY JOE 2000, but we tested many many many LEDS looking for these BABYS LED's


sorry to be vague but I hate  to give BAD information

[inkman996]

I bought a Baby Joe 2000 about 8 months ago and I have to say it is every thing this guy claims it to be. I’ve been in the business for about 12 years now and 8 of those years I was using a 5k metal halide unit with cost me a ton in electricity costs not to mention  having to change to bulb every 18 or so months which cost about $275.00 each so I decided to do a little research on the forums and noticed that people were using UV fluorescent tubes to expose screens and decided to give that a try and in the beginning I thought I had the answer.but as time went on about a year I found it to not be very reliable some bulbs would not start or start half way through the exposure resulting in a ruined screen and a lot of wasted time and money. So I decided to do a little more research and came across this guy at LDTronix selling these LED Units and I gave him a call and he explained how it all worked and also offered to demo it for me being from the next state over I thought that was nice of him. So we set up an appointment and I was very impressed with the results enough to buy one! Although it looked like a basic table top unit nothing special on the outside, it shot perfect halftones extremely fast I mean in 10 seconds with no undercutting, I was previously shooting for about 3 to 6 or so minutes on my UV fluorescent system with I thought was fine but again not very reliable,  I print every thing from 60 mesh athletic prints to 4 to 8 color Process using high mesh 305 s & 230s  etc.. with perfect results every time. I believe he is totally on to something here. Again I only had the unit for about 8 months now so I cant say how it will do long term but I haven’t had change my exposure  times at all yet, I don’t have any complaints yet it works great.  I love using this unit.

This is very odd, you went from a 5k MH backwards to BL flours? I would think anyone in the biz long enough and doing some research would quickly figure out that BL fluorescents are a big step backwards from MH.

Sadly after reading the other site it is obvious that the seller has been guilty of creating aliases, not saying that he did this here but with out any way of qualifying who is giving a testimonial then who really knows?

I think the people here would be more convinced if you made some real world videos of your unit in operation, an unedited expose to resolve video on a high mesh count with serious details and half tones would surely be appreciated.

Also your site lists Atlantic city are you going to be demoing there?

[amrcnscreen]

my 5k unit would expose at about 90 sec with a new bulb and after a few months it would it would go up to over 3 min for the same results