How I feel trying to use dischage and understand it

[Nick Bane]

Ok let me explain. D- base is clear and has binding agents in it..  D- white is white pigment added to clear base. Base is the binding agent that makes the pigment in the ink or that you add stick to the shirt. You did 70 percent clear ink to 30 percent white and expected a bright white. Discharge white will feel like crap until washed. Basing it  down a little will help coat all the fibers. This will make the white look brighter since all the viewable fibers have been died.

Discharge white is not white.  Compared to quick white its about 7 percent less bright. Depending on the shirt color brand and about 10 other things the brightness will very. Unless your putting the discharged white next to a white sheet of  paper it looks bright white on a good discharging shirt and color.

Hope this helps

I did 70/30 because that was what was side to do on another thread.  The time before that I ran straight white and it was white yes, not super crazy white but yes felt like crap yes.  Never test washed it because it also didn't look that amazing.  Again it may be my expectations.

i can kinda see where some of your confusion comes from.  when using discharge as an underbase for plastisol, 70 base to 30 white would be ok. being as the idea then is to base the design, but with little enough pigment so the "wash away" of the crusty part doesnt take the plastisol with it.

and yeah ill second the mention of discharge white not equalling a bright plastisol white, its jsut not going to be the same.  close but not the same.  but certainly take the crusty 100% white print and wash it, to see the soft hand afterwards and to see the resulting brightness also.

and yes, some customers wont find the white bright enough as a stand alone.  good example being metal mulisha prints.  a lot of discharge greys and colors on darks with white plastisol for the whites.

[alan802]

The 70/30 white to base mixture talk I think was mainly for when you're going to print plastisol on top the way I remember talking about it.  But when you're printing that CCI d white, just add your activator and get after it.  Now if you want to start playing with that same ink as an underbase with plastisol on top, then you can start adding a base and working the ratios a little bit to get the best look and feel.  But don't do what I did and print straight CCI d white as an underbase and plastisol on top...not good.  I'll print some discharge stuff tomorrow for the class and send y'all the sample prints unwashed then you can see what we get.  I'll do a CCI d white and maybe a red or yellow sericol texcharge print on black and then a few medium to light test tubes.

[GraphicDisorder]

Alan that would be awesome of you.

Graphic Disorder
2210 Eddie Williams Rd.  Suite 1
Johnson City, TN 37601

Happy to pay.

[Frog]

Brandt, I didn't notice if anyone already posted this or not, but get yourself a damn scale! You're not usually one to pinch pennies, and you are now involved with a chemistry that is not going to give consistent results mixing by eye.

[GraphicDisorder]

Brandt, I didn't notice if anyone already posted this or not, but get yourself a damn scale! You're not usually one to pinch pennies, and you are now involved with a chemistry that is not going to give consistent results mixing by eye.

For sure, but I am not investing in one of those until I am certain what my expectations are and what they should be line up with reality.  Again for all I know we have already done it right and my expectations where off. 

So far I don't see us using discharge, and yes that is probably because something I am doing isn't right.  So I need to see some other peoples final products and maybe I can be swayed into giving it another shot.  At which time I will buy a scale. 

Looking forward to some examples I have a couple PM's of people sending me some and Alan is going to as well.

[shellyky]

Brandt, I didn't notice if anyone already posted this or not, but get yourself a damn scale! You're not usually one to pinch pennies, and you are now involved with a chemistry that is not going to give consistent results mixing by eye.

we have a scale, its just not in grams, it's in tenths of ounces lol so yes the numbers were correct according to the calculator but i assume not as accurate and not as easy to calculate proportions...it worked for now.

[Frog]

I don't know how small the smallest quantity that you weighed was, but it sounds like you are weighing almost three grams(2.8 ) as your smallest reading.
If you are doing batches by the pound, that may be fine as your smallest amount of 5% of a lb is .8 oz, easily within your reading range.

It's just when someone reports trouble in this area, accuracy in proportions is the first place to check.

[GraphicDisorder]

I don't know how small the smallest quantity that you weighed was, but it sounds like you are weighing almost three grams(2. as your smallest reading.
If you are doing batches by the pound, that may be fine as your smallest amount of 5% of a lb is .8 oz, easily within your reading range.

It's just when someone reports trouble in this area, accuracy in proportions is the first place to check.

Our scale read down to .1oz.  So we where good.  I think our measurements where close.  I am sure a higher dollar scale would be more accurate though.  I don't think our mixing is our issue.  I think it was my expectations more than anything. 

I wasn't that impressed so far, so it became "what are others doing" or more importantly "let me see/feel/touch others prints" so I have a base line.  We have some stuff she did in Vastex class once and we have put our hands on some stuff from suppliers awhile back but I question some of that stuff as well.  I need to see some other real world prints, not something from a supplier trying to get me to buy something. 

[alan802]

We are going to print the discharge stuff after our lunch break, we are going to do a CCI d white print with a fairly open area design and I'll probably use a different design for the sericol red.

[ZooCity]

Get 
a   
scale   .

...that reads at least to tenths of grams. 

[GraphicDisorder]

Get 
a   
scale   .

...that reads at least to tenths of grams.

As I said, I will if I see a sample that I see a reason to bother with it.... 

[inkman996]

I don't even print discharge but from what I have read over the years and the recommendations from people like Tony 1/10 of an ounce is not accurate enough to even test with. Especially if mixing a small amount to test run. There is 28 grams in an ounce and one tenth of an ounce is in the neighbor hood of two grams, and the pros all seem to measure to the accuracy of a half or so gram maybe even less.

[ZooCity]

That is correct.  However, you have a minimum mix of 300-500g with discharge, depending, to ensure there is enough ink in the screen.  Our Sartorius does well enough at tenths but a small scale to hundredths would be a must for a big formula testing project.  That or waste a lot of ink.

Brandt, seriously, get a scale.  You can use it for plastisol too.  You are just going to chase yer trail without a consistent way to record mixes.

[Admiral]

fyi it doesn't have to be a 300+ dollar scale

we have 2 scales, one that does 1/10 of a gram and measures up to 2kg, cost $35 (perfect for quarts or less)

other one was not much more than that and weighs by the gram up to more like 10kg, used it for doing gallons once

[GraphicDisorder]

That is correct.  However, you have a minimum mix of 300-500g with discharge, depending, to ensure there is enough ink in the screen.  Our Sartorius does well enough at tenths but a small scale to hundredths would be a must for a big formula testing project.  That or waste a lot of ink.

Brandt, seriously, get a scale.  You can use it for plastisol too.  You are just going to chase yer trail without a consistent way to record mixes.

As I said, I am going to look at these samples coming and I am sure at that exact moment I will decide if I want to deal bothering with it or not.  Until that second, no need for a scale. 

Seriously let's not get off subject and make this about a scale.  I am 1000% aware I need a scale if I want to use discharge day to day.  So far though, I have not decided that I will use discharge, so lets not get ahead of ourselves.