Lost a print job today...

[Dottonedan]

HA!  remember that one that I think it was Abercrombie & Fitch put out.   "Two WONGS don't make a WHITE". 


They caught a lot of flack for that one but goes to show, the mighty can do no harm. They were not scathed.

[inkman996]

Hell it was only as recent as the 80's that the below picture and album name by Metallica was not allowed and they had to change the album name to Kill Em All.

[bj]

I can see the mindset here, but how many 'acceptable' designs and logos are sourced and pushed by companies that may literally enable or encourage the equivalent of putting babies on hooks?   

This all comes down to what you pay attention to... if your perception is that metal, punk, and hip hop is ruining the world, and petroleum, fast food, and bottled water companies are making the world a better place, that's your choice--and you are always creating your own world.

Interesting.  No one is saying any of those bands are ruining the world.  I don't remember stating anything of that sort or anyone else for that matter.    Just that they are just a band nothing more, nothing less.  So, having a disgusting image is cool because it is for a band?  Just don't see it.  If you have taken care of sick babies the way I have your perception may be different on how you would view an image of a child.  Also, if you have to turn your shirt inside out because it may be offensive to some, maybe it isn't worth wearing.  Just saying.

[Zelko-4-EVA]

I can see the mindset here, but how many 'acceptable' designs and logos are sourced and pushed by companies that may literally enable or encourage the equivalent of putting babies on hooks?   

This all comes down to what you pay attention to... if your perception is that metal, punk, and hip hop is ruining the world, and petroleum, fast food, and bottled water companies are making the world a better place, that's your choice--and you are always creating your own world.

Interesting.  No one is saying any of those bands are ruining the world.  I don't remember stating anything of that sort or anyone else for that matter.    Just that they are just a band nothing more, nothing less.  So, having a disgusting image is cool because it is for a band?  Just don't see it.  If you have taken care of sick babies the way I have your perception may be different on how you would view an image of a child.  Also, if you have to turn your shirt inside out because it may be offensive to some, maybe it isn't worth wearing.  Just saying.

i guess i wont post a pic of the Cannibal Corpse shirt we printed yesterday - its a 4 color - printed on a 2003 10 color gauntlet with 36x42 M3 frames onto anvil 976 using action engineering "all over supreme" platens.    sure the print isnt for everyone, but it pays the bills.   

[Sbrem]

I can see the mindset here, but how many 'acceptable' designs and logos are sourced and pushed by companies that may literally enable or encourage the equivalent of putting babies on hooks?   

This all comes down to what you pay attention to... if your perception is that metal, punk, and hip hop is ruining the world, and petroleum, fast food, and bottled water companies are making the world a better place, that's your choice--and you are always creating your own world.

Interesting.  No one is saying any of those bands are ruining the world.  I don't remember stating anything of that sort or anyone else for that matter.    Just that they are just a band nothing more, nothing less.  So, having a disgusting image is cool because it is for a band?  Just don't see it.  If you have taken care of sick babies the way I have your perception may be different on how you would view an image of a child.  Also, if you have to turn your shirt inside out because it may be offensive to some, maybe it isn't worth wearing.  Just saying.

Having been a weekend warrior musician since the mid Sixties, it always amazes me how full of themselves so many self described musicians are, as though they have some kind of answers, when they are usually pretty ignorant, even in there own field of music. Most of the rockers I've met can only do what they know, and can't step outside there self-made box. Imagine a visual artist that doesn't know what Red or Blue is. Yet these "artists" somehow have carte blanche to offend everyone else's stupid sensibilities. Damn, this thread has put me into an ugly place...

Steve

[Frog]

One word Steve, "marketing"

[Gilligan]

Steve that is true for a lot of bands but not all of them.

Take a band like Helmet (granted, not one of my favorites or overly offensive (if any)).  They play some pretty mindless "heavy rock" (some might call it "metal")... but are all graduated jazz majors.

I know plenty of rock musicians that have an insane amount of musical knowledge, from counter point melody to jazz comp.  Yet when done with their schooling they just go crank out some buck cherry esque "stupid rock".

One of my friends once would make random dots on a fret board and then learn that as a scale and then when he wanted some off the wall sounding stuff to play over something he would use that "scale".  You would listen in awe as the beautiful noise that came out made no sense but at the same time made all the sense in the world when he played.

Then there are groups like Slayer that had to take guitar lessons just to even learn what they were already playing at an arena level because they were completely clueless and just knew how to "market" (like andy said) to a bunch of ignorant kids.

One of my favorite bands is Faith No More... many times on B-Sides or whatever you will find songs in "off genres" that seem to be there just for the sake of saying "in case you didn't know, we could play this if we wanted to... and play it well."

[Frog]

One of my favorite bands is Faith No More... many times on B-Sides or whatever you will find songs in "off genres" that seem to be there just for the sake of saying "in case you didn't know, we could play this if we wanted to... and play it well."

What is the digital equivalent of a "B" side? Just a cut that didn't get any air play?

Playing with my "Some Girls" cover yesterday, I once again lamented the loss of a true art form that today's youngsters just will probably not experience, even with the mini-encore of vinyl.

And, btw, I don't have that much jam any more either. 

[ScreenFoo]

I think there are obvious moral principles we can apply in these situations, but whether or not we apply them fairly, disinterested in what we have to pecuniarily gain, or justify our actions to make a $ is where the fallen will starts dictating the fallen intellect.  I think the real problem here, screenfoo, is that you are a moral relativist.

Come now -- you don't really believe what you said, do you?  "You are always creating your own world"?  "If your pereption..."??

If that's your position -- the prevalent relativistic, borderline solipsistic one that says that what is right and wrong is created (Protagoras' old adage, "Man is the measure of all things" [as the moderns and postmoderns like to say with such indignation and "Chronological Snobbery" - that's so "ancient" "pre-modern" and "passe") and "different strokes for different folks", etc. etc. -- then don't start badmouthing that Bin Laden was wrong - you can only say you don't like what he did - him being wrong is only "your perception".  Don't complain that what the child molesters and human traffickers are doing is really wrong, just something you don't fancy.  And, when a thief comes and burns your office down and steals all of your money from your account, don't start whining that he did something - ghasp! wheeze! spit! - "wrong" or "evil" or "un-just" (which is why I also wonder why relativists don't also want to eliminate laws, as laws are merely extensions/conclusions of people's moral positions that are apparently "made up" by some other person, so they're not applicable to me) - for, you've precluded the possibility for such reality; you and he just differ on your "created worlds."  OOhh ooh , can I be your banker or investor - I bet I can show you you don't believe moral truths are "created" -- that you really do believe in right and wrong?  As Aristotle made clear thousands of years ago in his Nichomachean Ethics, you can think relativism, but you can't live it.  Moreover, only if you believe in moral absolutes (i.e., we are NOT creating our own world), can you call something wrong and ban it and not any of this silly, childish "what's right for you is not necessarily right for me" rubbish.  That's why moral absolutes provide for progress and why moral relativism is a stuck-in-the-mud regressive philosophy.   Your position reminds me of a childish, little man named Josef Stalin, who needed nothing short of a good whuppin'.  His world -- one that I certainly want no part of -- is one that you would have to permit, since who are we to impose our values on anyone else's "created world," since that's all we are doing -- not discovering and abiding by moral truths, but simply "creating values" or "transvaluating values" (Nietzsche, another philosophical wimp, would be so proud!) in our created worlds?  (It would also do well to check out the 1st chapter of C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity on how this very discussion you're having here, defending a moral relativistic worldview of "creating your own world" (obviously by it you mean "moral world" given the context), is self-contradictory, not just in practice, but in theory as well)... On to Messieur Stalin:

"Everything I have said and done in these last years is relativism by intuition.... If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories and men who claim to be the bearers of an objective, immortal truth... then there is nothing more relativistic than fascistic attitudes and activity.  From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable" (From Mussolini's Diuturna, 374-77).

Peace out homie.

I only made a statement--to make another, I've read Ayn Rand too, but I found her 'theories' to be unusually far from fact even while claiming to be the only fact--no matter how she presents them.

I'll keep it short and quote Jimi--"It's all in your mind"   

And truly, I'm not trying to say musicians are all that great--didn't mean to come off like that, but seems like there are groups that would have you think musicians are doing much worse things than anyone else is capable of...  Seems odd to me.

[inkman996]

One of my friends once would make random dots on a fret board and then learn that as a scale and then when he wanted some off the wall sounding stuff to play over something he would use that "scale".  You would listen in awe as the beautiful noise that came out made no sense but at the same time made all the sense in the world when he played.

I cant wrap my head around this Kevin, while I am not an overly talented musician I am capable in several instruments and quite proficient in reading music and understanding musical theory. But when you play random notes all over the fret board it is and will be out of key completely, so how on earth can this be made to sound good?

[Gilligan]

One of my favorite bands is Faith No More... many times on B-Sides or whatever you will find songs in "off genres" that seem to be there just for the sake of saying "in case you didn't know, we could play this if we wanted to... and play it well."

What is the digital equivalent of a "B" side? Just a cut that didn't get any air play?

Playing with my "Some Girls" cover yesterday, I once again lamented the loss of a true art form that today's youngsters just will probably not experience, even with the mini-encore of vinyl.

And, btw, I don't have that much jam any more either. 

I'm not that young... there were "singles" released on cd's as well as EP's and such that didn't "hit the charts".

To answer your question more directly, I think bands put out songs that aren't on the "album".

BTW, that record cleaning vid I posted a while back was found because I came across a DIY "burn" your own vinyl video.

[Denis Kolar]

i guess i wont post a pic of the Cannibal Corpse shirt we printed yesterday - its a 4 color - printed on a 2003 10 color gauntlet with 36x42 M3 frames onto anvil 976 using action engineering "all over supreme" platens.    sure the print isnt for everyone, but it pays the bills.   

Those guys still play??? Those shirts are not for everyone to see (If they did not change in last 15-20 years, and I doubt that:))

[Gilligan]

One of my friends once would make random dots on a fret board and then learn that as a scale and then when he wanted some off the wall sounding stuff to play over something he would use that "scale".  You would listen in awe as the beautiful noise that came out made no sense but at the same time made all the sense in the world when he played.

I cant wrap my head around this Kevin, while I am not an overly talented musician I am capable in several instruments and quite proficient in reading music and understanding musical theory. But when you play random notes all over the fret board it is and will be out of key completely, so how on earth can this be made to sound good?

And that is the genius of his playing.  I don't think you could give that "scale" to just anyone and have them play it and it sound good.  But when put in the right context at the right moment... and over the right piece of music, it "worked".

Again, it also wasn't meant to sound like traditional music or "solo'ing"... it was meant to be off... but it was off in a uniformed manner that made sense.

Think of NIN, Downward Spiral... I can't remember the track but he went in the other room put on the headphones and started sound checking the drums by just kind randomly wailing on them.  He then decided to keep it.  It sounds very odd but it works.

The drum "solo" on 46 and 2 by Tool has a similar odd feel that puts you off but comes together in the end.

[inkman996]

Your examples still follow keys for the most part. I know where you are coming from just listen to Dub Step. It is as random as can be but yet appealing to some my self included.

The thing that throws me is let say your buddy is playing random notes falling out of key but the back ground music lets say the base is on key it should sound terrible, just like hitting two notes out of key at the same time blah!

[Frog]

What is the digital equivalent of a "B" side? Just a cut that didn't get any air play?

Playing with my "Some Girls" cover yesterday, I once again lamented the loss of a true art form that today's youngsters just will probably not experience, even with the mini-encore of vinyl.

And, btw, I don't have that much jam any more either. 

I'm not that young... there were "singles" released on cd's as well as EP's and such that didn't "hit the charts".

To answer your question more directly, I think bands put out songs that aren't on the "album".

BTW, that record cleaning vid I posted a while back was found because I came across a DIY "burn" your own vinyl video.

I am a somewhat literal guy. The last B "sides" I saw were rather clumsy cassettes with, literally one song on the "A" side, and one on the "B".
Just as "typing" is an archaic term today with very few of us using typewriters, so is "side", for the most part.
Now, if the new generation of music fans so dubs them, fine. I rely on you young'uns (and not-so-young'uns) for that, as I am much out of the loop on today's terminology.