The importance of art

[Clark]

Where do ya'll place the importance of the design in your work.  For us, when we do retail work, it is the single most important aspect of our sales pitch.  We believe that if you don't want to pay for good art...move along.  There's plenty of guys that will throw some Bull S on a t-shirt and sell it to you...we aren't one of them.  It's amazingly easy to sell good art, you just have to target the right customers to do so.  I walked into a restaurant this week, and the guy was visiting with a dozen other printers this week.  I brought in a half-dozen very nice samples with great illustrations on them.  Walked out with a $250 deposit for artwork that will be going on 150 shirts.  Just finished up a couple other jobs where the client paid $525 for two designs, each going on 70 shirts.  That's well over a $1.00 + average per shirt that goes to the artist, and it's worth every penny to me.  In my mind, art is so important and can make or break a printing company...

I am continually appalled at the level of crap art that some people put out.  It does the entire industry a disservice.  We basically go into every quote looking to give the artist $1.00 per shirt. So a 400 piece job will yield a $400 piece of art, etc.  Obviously there are times when the numbers are significantly skewed, but that is the goal.

Curious as to where some of you print shop owners put the importance of the design work in your business plans.

[JBLUE]

This is a great point. This is something that we try to do as well. Even on customer supplied art. Its the art that is on the shirt that sells the shirt, not the brand of shirt itself.

[ZooCity]

I was just talking this over with my co-worker yesterday. 

I put art way up there.  Probably too far up sometimes and, earlier on, I did graphic design for clients when printing was slow so I certainly made some crappy art in the early days and now really appreciate the value of good, ready for press art.  I got better at it over time and incorporated what I was learning into our retail line designs as well as client work.  Now many of my clients want our "look" and, lucky me, I'm the only guy who can generate that specific look.  What it means is I wish to god I could hire an artist and that clients in my area would pay for him or her to generate their art.  Hell, I'd be the artist man if they'd pay me, but they just don't pay for art it seems.   

Nobody around here is going to pay $250 for art going on a 130 pc order.  If I quoted that out they would just go to another shop and take the lower quote.  That great you can get that but doesn't seem possible out here. 

[Clark]

You're area maybe different Zoo.  I am friends with a printer near me, and we are good ways away from the big city.  It amazes him that I charge for art on every job...every single one.  He does all his own stuff using clip art and the regular templates, etc.  Now, we are only 10-15 minutes apart from each other.  How is it that I can routinely get $1-$3 per shirt for art and he can't even get one penny for it.  It's my belief that you have to have a solid portfolio and then put a monetary value to the difference between your work and someone else's. Then build value in the design work by showing the customer that people will continue to wear your designs over and over instead of becoming a grease rag out in the garage after their customer wears it once.

Of course my friend can't charge for art he's doing the same thing day in and day out.  You have to be different, and better.  But, if people are seeking out your style and you're the only one who can do it in your area how can it be that you can't profit from this situation?

[killergraphics]

I was just talking this over with my co-worker yesterday. 

I put art way up there.  Probably too far up sometimes and, earlier on, I did graphic design for clients when printing was slow so I certainly made some crappy art in the early days and now really appreciate the value of good, ready for press art.  I got better at it over time and incorporated what I was learning into our retail line designs as well as client work.  Now many of my clients want our "look" and, lucky me, I'm the only guy who can generate that specific look.  What it means is I wish to god I could hire an artist and that clients in my area would pay for him or her to generate their art.  Hell, I'd be the artist man if they'd pay me, but they just don't pay for art it seems.   

Nobody around here is going to pay $250 for art going on a 130 pc order.  If I quoted that out they would just go to another shop and take the lower quote.  That great you can get that but doesn't seem possible out here.

I'm in their too. And Yes good art sells much better.

There are highend printers just as there are highend artist.

I'm just further down the ladder.

Its a tuff job...but somebody has to do it.

[Artelf2xs]

Honestly, I'd have to say it goes both ways.

 Our best customers are the ones who say they saw our site and wanted that level of art and most the shops out there are just selling clip art and text and charging crazy art charges.
these are for events and companies who want to look good!

 On the other hand as a high-end  designer and production artist, I know that many people want their creation on a shirt for a reunion or small company and they just dont give a hoot about quality, they want what they want when they want it.... Usually right now. and peoples digital muck is worse then the bar napkin sketches we used to get 25 years ago.

the majority of consumers do not know what quality is nor do they care. they equate t-shirts with CHEAP stenciled letters. However there are lots of folks that want their Custom apparel to rivval that in the market place...
Sorry I have kinda had a bad attitude about people wanting push button cheap shirts from their 72 dpi internet thumbnail they " DESIGNED" aka stole of Google images. but it is business for this smal shop.

Being able to produce High-end art for the general client over stenciled crap will always make you hands above the competition and get you the best marketing ( Word of mouth)

[Clark]

the majority of consumers do not know what quality is nor do they care. they equate t-shirts with CHEAP stenciled letters. However there are lots of folks that want their Custom apparel to rivval that in the market place...

See this is where I believe alot of folks can do better.  It is our job to sell and at the same time teach the client that there is a better way.  I'm not talking about doing high-end on every job.  But a talented artist that runs $50-$75/hr can do alot of work in one hour.  And it's my thought that out sourcing to very qualified production artists for even an hour will put you above most other shops.  In order to not eat that hours worth of time, you must charge for art..and you must show the client the difference and the value they are getting for the $75.

[Clark]

Here's a quick example of what I am talking about.  The first image is some crappy online thing that these people have been getting for a couple years.  And they thought the art was okay, but they were unhappy with the price..they thought the price of the finished goods was too much.  The second image cost $50 to get done.  Very simple production art, and about an hour worth of work for a good production artist.  It's not the Mona Lisa, but I also think the customer sees the value between the getting free crap vs. a $50 art charge.  Am I wrong to see significant value in the difference...a value that should be charged for?

[killergraphics]

Guys believe me I'm not on any side but one. And I not trying to be hard to get along with.

These new guys reading these are just like I was years ago and want and need the help.

I just feel that they need to know it is something in the middle.

Most of them will never make it to your level, hell I will never make it to your level.

They just need to know it is something in the middle.

A good technical printer can do well in the middle.

[ebscreen]

I agree Clark, I think we have all printed our share of instant car wash rags.
For me the trouble is not in producing or charging for better art, but in finding a way to
say "your art sucks" nicely.

[Clark]

When a customer says they are going to send me the art to redraw, etc.  I usually just ask them if they would like my experienced opinion on the design or whether or not they will allow changes.  I make it a point to be honest with them and tell them how it can be improved upon.  In the end, it's my belief that whoever is buying the shirts just wants them to be a success, however it is that they measure that, and it my goal to make the reality for them...sometimes you just have to be brutally honest with the client, and more times than not, they will learn to trust you and eventually give you full-creative control over all their projects if you do them right from the beginning.

[DouglasGrigar]

Nobody around here is going to pay $250 for art going on a 130 pc order.  If I quoted that out they would just go to another shop and take the lower quote.  That great you can get that but doesn't seem possible out here.

They exist...

If price is the deciding factor for a customer - THEY WILL NEVER BE LOYAL if they don’t care that some bait-and-switch artist gives them blemish/seconds for shirts, a crappy print with 110 mesh pooped on so thick it looks like it was applied with a masons brick trowel - of course art is not an issue for that type of customer!

You can either whore-out and watch your pricing so that you match your desired profit against your cost structure or give up the job to the troglodyte down the street.

We are screen printers involved in garment decoration (or printing in general if you prefer) it is a craft as part of a business.

Walmart sells blank shirts, and makes a profit.

[Frog]

I agree Clark, I think we have all printed our share of instant car wash rags.
For me the trouble is not in producing or charging for better art, but in finding a way to
say "your art sucks" nicely.

Last Sunday, I just asked a potential customer, if they insisted on me using their art without my improvements on it, to sign a promise to not disclose who printed the shirts!
Hey, they didn't come back with the order, on Monday, hmmmm.

[DouglasGrigar]

I agree Clark, I think we have all printed our share of instant car wash rags.
For me the trouble is not in producing or charging for better art, but in finding a way to
say "your art sucks" nicely.

Last Sunday, I just asked a potential customer, if they insisted on me using their art without my improvements on it, to sign a promise to not disclose who printed the shirts!
Hey, they didn't come back with the order, on Monday, hmmmm.

This comes down to several things.

Craft - dang, I rock that design...
Business - did I make a profit...
Service - did I make that customer happy...
Marketing - will that design and job get more customers...

From a survival standpoint - did that check get credited yet....

I think I have come to value facts over anyones feelings including my own...

[GraphicDisorder]

Art is what started me in printing, so its safe to say I care about it the most.  In my opinion the design is what sells the shirt, not the printing, or who printed it at least not to the same degree. 

I even find it hard to print these boring shirts with just text or something on them.  Not that we dont from time to time, but even then I will often spice it up free beacuse I find that if they sell shirts easy or easier than before then they will remember that, and come back for that again. 

But, I charge for art 99% of the time and I think it should be charged for.  People want to buy a shirt that they like, not just a shirt, if the design/art wasn't important we would all be in blank shirts.