Messing Around With Mesh Tension Today

[alan802]

I was putting together a frame with 205 newman roller mesh today and got it up to I think the highest tension I've ever successfully got on a production screen. I think I've messed around and hit 70 newtons one time but the mesh blew up within a few seconds of me hitting the high mark. I'm going to coat this screen with a super thick stencil on one end, normal on the other and play with a few new squeegees I got today, maybe something amazing will happen...maybe not.  It's been a while since I've stretched anything but S threads so I made the most out of it while I had the chance.  Hopefully it will survive through the night so I can cost it in the morning.

[Gilligan]

Why stop there Alan, there was still more numbers on the dial.

[alan802]

"they" say 62 newtons is maximum for that 205 so I figured 65 was plenty.

[sweetts]

jeeeezzeeee that is tight. Did you hear any noise while stretching cuz those thread are screaming

[sweetts]

Any updates did the ultra high tension provide noticeable difference in print quality? Do you notable changes say over 40nm

Sent  from samsung gem(the worst smart phone ever)

[tancehughes]

We were working on some screens the other day and were hitting 60 newtons on our white 110's, they print like a DREAM too. Great opacity, one stroke, on darks.

We've been bringing our yellow mesh 255's up around 42 and 45 and I was nervous then.. I'd have a break down at 65 alan!!

[ZooCity]

It'll hold.  The popped screen was probably from not enough corner softening.  You need to index the roller down a lot further in toward the frame so they have enough travel and also soften further.  You know this though.  I popped a bunch when I first tried hi-ten and folks at M&R boards helped me out with those two tips.  Once I dialed it in, I marked the corner softening distance down on a clear ruler for reference and checked each corner every time I built a screen.

The only thing I didn't like about the 65 zone was the need to retension more frequently.   45 is easier for maintenance. 

I think Evo best described these screens once as two thin sheets of glass with a layer of nitro gylcerin in the middle.  Makes you bring out those plastic mesh protectors. 

[sweetts]

It'll hold.  The popped screen was probably from not enough corner softening.  You need to index the roller down a lot further in toward the frame so they have enough travel and also soften further.  You know this though.  I popped a bunch when I first tried hi-ten and folks at M&R boards helped me out with those two tips.  Once I dialed it in, I marked the corner softening distance down on a clear ruler for reference and checked each corner every time I built a screen.

The only thing I didn't like about the 65 zone was the need to retension more frequently.   45 is easier for maintenance. 

I think Evo best described these screens once as two thin sheets of glass with a layer of nitro gylcerin in the middle.  Makes you bring out those plastic mesh protectors.

but noticeable difference from a 40 nice

Sent  from samsung gem(the worst smart phone ever)

[alan802]

I'll comment on this later tonight or this weekend, but that particular screen did exactly what I was hoping.  We were printing at 25"/sec which is extremely fast for that mesh count.  I think the only drawback of tensions this high is the press calibration.  To take advantage of the tension, off contact has to be low low low, and if you have a pallet out of calibration just slightly it will cause problems.  40 newtons is still a very high tension level for most shops, if all our screens were 40, I'd be happy as hell.

[ZooCity]

if all our screens were 40, I'd be happy as hell.

An all Newman Roller Mesh setup will get you there pretty easily.  When I used the Roller Mesh our set was all up there, tpi from 110N-300N.  Easy maintenance as far as retensioning.  The other mesh, Murakami std thread, went there in tension but did not hold it as well as Roller Mesh did and the thread diameter was almost identical.  You do get something for the exorbitant cost of that mesh. 

And yeah, it's an overall commitment.  Not for everybody but if it was for anyone Alan, it might be you.  Carefully paralleling the press (and a machine that can stay where you put it) has to be regular scheduled maintenance or it's nothing but a frustration.  I think you and that RPM could take full advantage of this.  If you do go for it, you'll find you can use those crazy constant force squeegees with insane results. 

[Homer]

do you really see a differance in these higher tensions? we have been using rollers here and there for the past year, and I have to admit at first we were like, holy sh!t, these are sweet. But as we learned more and more about squeegies, pressure, seps and mesh selection - I no longer use the rollers, they just do not fit in our model. too time consuming for a small shop like mine. not to turn this into a roller debat but honestly, does this super high tension really make a better print?

[GraphicDisorder]

do you really see a differance in these higher tensions? we have been using rollers here and there for the past year, and I have to admit at first we were like, holy sh!t, these are sweet. But as we learned more and more about squeegies, pressure, seps and mesh selection - I no longer use the rollers, they just do not fit in our model. too time consuming for a small shop like mine. not to turn this into a roller debat but honestly, does this super high tension really make a better print?

Often wondered this as well.  You often get that reaction out of people when they first go to them.  But I can't tell you how many people talk about it on these boards then a picture is posted later of some thing on their press or something and there they are, statics on the press being used.  If they were the end all be all why would that be happening.  I would think if in fact night and day they would phase out statics all the way.

I am at the point where we are going to do be moving to either rollers or a bigger press.  Probably sooner than later.  Probably both before its over with but I wonder should I do rollers first or bigger press first?  We are doing so many jobs now that are 6-7 colors.  I need more heads.  Period.  In fact its quickly becoming the more colors I will put on it the more they will pay for and seem happy to with the detailed art.  But at the same time I could probably learn discharge and ditch flashing and end up picking up a head or two from not using a flash/cool down.  Could band aid it for awhile.  What to do..

[Gilligan]

I think of it as controlling (removing) variables.  Variables that can compound other issues or mitigate them.

[tancehughes]

do you really see a differance in these higher tensions? we have been using rollers here and there for the past year, and I have to admit at first we were like, holy sh!t, these are sweet. But as we learned more and more about squeegies, pressure, seps and mesh selection - I no longer use the rollers, they just do not fit in our model. too time consuming for a small shop like mine. not to turn this into a roller debat but honestly, does this super high tension really make a better print?

Often wondered this as well.  You often get that reaction out of people when they first go to them.  But I can't tell you how many people talk about it on these boards then a picture is posted later of some thing on their press or something and there they are, statics on the press being used.  If they were the end all be all why would that be happening.  I would think if in fact night and day they would phase out statics all the way.

I am at the point where we are going to do be moving to either rollers or a bigger press.  Probably sooner than later.  Probably both before its over with but I wonder should I do rollers first or bigger press first?  We are doing so many jobs now that are 6-7 colors.  I need more heads.  Period.  In fact its quickly becoming the more colors I will put on it the more they will pay for and seem happy to with the detailed art.  But at the same time I could probably learn discharge and ditch flashing and end up picking up a head or two from not using a flash/cool down.  Could band aid it for awhile.  What to do..

Brandt, we're strictly roller frames here, no statics. I do believe that prints come out better from having rollers (as long as your tensions and what not are correct), but I believe the biggest benefit to rollers/high tension is the consistent increase in speed, less ink being used to achieve the coverage needed, and great one hit whites. I know you know all of this already, just throwing in my 2 cents here... It's not only about print quality, but about more production in less time.

[alan802]

The last sentence in Tance's post is the main benefit.  When I say EVERYTHING runs smoother it really is every part of the process.  We have maybe 10 statics still in production now and we had as many as 150 at one time.  I measured their tension and only kept the ones with 18-22 newtons which weeded out all but about 20-25.  We still run some single color jobs with statics and we have a few higher mesh count statics that are high enough tension to get the benefits.  We like our shurloc EZ frames and they give you that middle ground between the ultimate newman roller frame and statics.  They don't give you the high tension levels that you get with newmans but they work harden in a very acceptable range of upper 20's to high 30's in some mesh counts.  There is no maintenance with the EZ frames which is a plus, but if you're wanting ultimate control of the variable then you'll be lacking.

I think many of us have tried to figure out where that line of diminishing returns when it comes to tension levels.  I've gone back and forth with this and what I've said or thought in the past might be different from where I'm at now with all the work I've done in trying to achieve "one hit" prints.  I'm thinking that 40-50 newtons is where you'll find that getting your mesh to that tension is going to be harder than the results or the benifits you get.  I was thinking that the 35 newton range was the sweet spot since getting most mesh counts there and keeping them there was fairly easy.  But then there are times that I've coated a 102 newman roller mesh with a 70 micron stencil and printed a one hit khaki ink on military green shirt and printed at 25"/sec that make me think that 55 newtons is well worth it.  Considering that with a 35 newton screen we have to print, flash, print that same job.  Doing that a few times a week could really add up and benefit production and ink consumption.

This subject is one of my favorites.