Pallet arm Flex

[prozyan]

Everything is "acceptable".

That is crap.  A 1/4" to 1/2" of deflection is completely unacceptable.  It might be an engineering problem with the press, which would mean its typical of the press, but it is still unacceptable.

There are pallet arms you can sit on and they won't deflect that much, let alone from squeegee pressure.

I can't even imagine the kind of problems that much deflection would cause for you   

[Inkworks]

I'm sure you could compensate a bit by setting platens to have less off contact at the outside ends, but that opens up a whole new set of problems. That much deflection will not only screw with squeegee pressures front to back, but also registration.

Is the arm itself bending or is the centre hub rocking on the shaft?

One last thing, I'm not sure about on a Brown, but on my machine I can move the screen clamps and platens farther away or closer to the center of the machine, making sure everything is as close as possible to the center shaft would give the machine less leverage for deflecting the platen arms.

[tonypep]

Not an uncommon problem especiacilly with older model M&R presses. Yes we would often compensate by having higher off contact on the load side of the platen. Unconventional but practical.

[RICK STEFANICK]

Everything is "acceptable". I was just curious is all autos flex some or generally they are very rigid. I can flex the pallet by pushing down with my hand, standing away from it- not over it using my 230 lbs.

I have to use a fairly quick stroke speed otherwise it will nearly stop.

I've been living with this, but I was printing a little longer print the other day and it was really smashing the bottom of the print. Top was nice and smooth.

are you sure its not unlevel pallets or heads? just a thought. those browns may not be state of the art printers but they are made very solid and i find it hard to believe one thats a year old is having that major issue.  a buddy of mine runs screen printing at badger sportswear and loves those electra prints.. they have several of them they use for small runs. i personally have never ran one.

[cclaud3]

This machine has been leveled from core up at least 40 times. Numerous times by several techs. Typical remedy given is to speed up the stroke. Other suggestion is to check tightness of the tracks that the print heads glide down. Not very noticeable on left chest or upper chest prints. Anything in the 11" plus print height really shows the issue. I think they advertise a 21" max height- I would never have a need for that but I know MY machine couldn't do it anyway.

Yes, there are solid parts of the machine. I would not call it sturdy. I don't believe the pallet arms are sturdy enough. They have had me slow the machine's index speed down to prevent it from losing registration. I think they should have the outer screen frame support tied into the head, separate from the support/outrigger legs. Currently the outer edge of the screen rests on a horizontal support connected to the outriggers while the inner side is held by a more standard frame clamp. The horizontal support has a foam strip to prevent the screen from sliding around on it. But it requires some passes to have the screen settle. You can see where registration gets effed up. There is just too much movement in this and in the legs to maintain consistent registration.

They have replaced the legs with larger ones which have helped. They added more metal pieces in the hub to have it bite more into the registration gates.

I have been very patient with them, waiting months for them to send techs.

A few months ago a loud squeeking noise started during indexing. They can't figure it out. I've emailed videos and don't expect much. Quite frustrating. The engineer who designed it stated that he was fine with the noise and had no adjustments for it. Hoping they figure it out. You can hear it from the front of my building. Can't imagine they would be selling many of these at shows if they were making this noise in front of the customer.

They are very polite and responsive on the phone. I believe everything started on the wrong foot with an unexperienced installer. I did not know the right questions to ask...

They tell me that I'm the only one having these problems. Well I've talked with another owner and they are having the same exact problems. They have provided the same attempts of fixes. Haven't spoken with them since the fix, but at least I know I'm not imagining this stuff.

[RICK STEFANICK]

wow.. i would demand another press

[Homer]

 The horizontal support has a foam strip to prevent the screen from sliding around on it. But it requires some passes to have the screen settle. You can see where registration gets effed up. There is just too much movement in this and in the legs to maintain consistent registration.

that is unbelievable, and this is a year old machine, their latest and greatest technology? Leveling 40 times, I bet that isn't helping the machine much. So the engineer is OK with the squeaking, fine -great. I am NOT happy with the squeaking, so FIX IT. . .I would direct them to this post and give them a chance to show how they handle issues. OR call M&R and see what they would do for you, hell, I bet they could fix it!

[cclaud3]

There are several people aware of it, including the owner.

[ZooCity]

thats aggravating, I feel for you.  we are in a similar situation with one machine though not as bad and not with an auto thank god. 

At some point you have to throw in the towel.  We're at that point with our machine, I was patient and helpful and gave the mfg every option to fix it but they can't.  I offered to give it back to them and made it clear that the machine does not and apparently cannot function as described and I'm done playing engineer for them. 

It sounds like Brown is doing a similar thing to you and needs to buck up and take care of their lemon press on their own time, not yours.

My ?:  What can you do when a mfg is stalling and not coming to the table to remedy the bad machine?

in many cases it feels like they are just stalling until some warranty or statute expires

[Frog]

Funny, because some folks like Killer claim that the folks at Brown are great and helpful.

[ZooCity]

I think they are definitely trying at least, from the sound if it, but at some point you just have to call it.

How will this issue ever be solved, by jerry rigging the press until it can barely print in reg?  The machine needs to go back.

my case was different, both parties thought it could be modified.  after machining some parts and lots of adjusting and thinking we got close but no cigar.

I think the lesson here is to put a timeline on it.  Machine doesn't perform as advertised?  Give then x weeks in writing to remedy and reject the press  if they cant or won't.  Some of us may be a little too accommodating.

[ZooCity]

I love analogies so, just for the sake of it:

Would you buy a new car and work with the mfg over the course of a year if it couldn't go over 20 mph or stay on the road?

[prozyan]

My ?:  What can you do when a mfg is stalling and not coming to the table to remedy the bad machine?

In a nutshell . . . not much.

[ZooCity]

My ?:  What can you do when a mfg is stalling and not coming to the table to remedy the bad machine?

In a nutshell . . . not much.

Really?  So someone can just sell you something that doesn't work and you're stuck with it?  No remedy here?

It's so strange to me to see this sort of thing happening.  None of us would deliver the wrong shirts to a client and dick them around for a year.  We'd replace or refund and move along.  And this is no T shirt order, it's 10s of thousands of dollars of equipment in the case of this Brown.

[cclaud3]

Funny, because some folks like Killer claim that the folks at Brown are great and helpful.

Frog, do you know anyone specifically besides him? He has an older hand-turned semi-auto. I'm running a 6/10 auto and bought a quartz along with a new dryer from them. I can PM a shop to you that has the same issues (just saying if proof is needed). BTW, I mean no hostility. They are absolutely friendly and apparently knowledgable. But that doesn't fix me up quickly.

I've got a considerable chunk of change that I paid in full to them and have no monetary leverage. I see the end of my 1 year parts/labor slipping away...

They originally thought it was the main roller bearing that engages the hub. It has been replaced twice and has nothing to do with the squeaking that I can tell.