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Author Topic: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?  (Read 5301 times)

Offline blue moon

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what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« on: May 22, 2012, 05:39:23 PM »
We have a customer wanting this printed with metallic inks. I can possibly even come up with two or three shades of silver, but is it even worth the headache?

my thoughts:
metallic inks require coarse screens and will look like crap

possibly use liquid silver and add some black to create different shades. Would that work? Liquid silver should go through finer screens, but not sure how it would handle additional black.

foil is a no go as they want the different colors. Hmmm . . . could we do a halftone underbase and press the foil?

any thoughts?

pierre
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 05:41:32 PM by blue moon »
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Offline Sbrem

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 05:54:29 PM »
What about the white? There's no white metallic I've seen; maybe a crystalina? Can you show them how it would look with traditional inks, white, 2 or 3 grays, a tiny bit of black, like printing chrome wheels? You might spend the time on the metallics  only to find it looks, well, not so good...

Steve

Artelf had some pretty good chrome effects, maybe he'll chime in?
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Offline blue moon

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 05:56:29 PM »
Quote from: Sbrem on May 22, 2012, 05:54:29 PM
What about the white? There's no white metallic I've seen; maybe a crystalina? Can you show them how it would look with traditional inks, white, 2 or 3 grays, a tiny bit of black, like printing chrome wheels? You might spend the time on the metallics  only to find it looks, well, not so good...

Steve

Artelf had some pretty good chrome effects, maybe he'll chime in?

they are asking for a quote on both regular plastisol and silver ink. They are willing to pay more for the metallic, but I don't even know how to quote it!

pierre
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Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Sbrem

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 06:50:26 PM »
I had a thought, how about a silver shimmer for one gray, and liquid silver (wilflex I think) for a different metallic? They have different finishes which might add to the effect, maybe even flash them and overprint on a shimmer or liquid silver with, well, I don't really know yet, these things come in spaced out pieces sometimes...

Steve

Anyway, just hit 11.5 hours, so I'm going home to eat, relax, and do some more art for stuff we need for the long weekend...
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Offline blue moon

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 07:19:54 PM »
Quote from: Sbrem on May 22, 2012, 06:50:26 PM
I had a thought, how about a silver shimmer for one gray, and liquid silver (wilflex I think) for a different metallic? They have different finishes which might add to the effect, maybe even flash them and overprint on a shimmer or liquid silver with, well, I don't really know yet, these things come in spaced out pieces sometimes...

Steve

Anyway, just hit 11.5 hours, so I'm going home to eat, relax, and do some more art for stuff we need for the long weekend...

that's a good idea! possibly even print some gel over something else . . .

pierre
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Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Screened Gear

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 07:39:40 PM »
Silver Shimmer is tintable. In offset printing they use silver ink and add whatever pantone ink you want to make it a metallic. This would work with our inks as well. Just make sure to use translucent inks. They may not be as shinny but they will have a metallic look to them. I have printed a shimmer with a 165 screen and got surprisingly good coverage. Not sure how a long run would go. Its really one of those jobs you need to take just to figure out if it can be done. Good luck.
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Offline ZooCity

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 09:28:10 PM »
Sep it normally to get the visual feel and then add in a clear, particle base, overprint with some shinies in there of your choice....or foil it selectively. 
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Offline Chadwick

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 10:05:28 PM »
Is the print actually metallic?
It could just be very well done very well through the art and seps..

*( kinda cheesy filter overkill, but whatever )

I realize what they ask for, but..I would think the metallics would look
wrong on a 2D shaded representation of a 3D object, as the art is what
is making all those reflections and such, not funky ink.

perhaps your customer is mistaken in what they actually want.
.02
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 10:09:17 PM by Chadwick »
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Offline Gilligan

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 10:08:56 PM »
I thought the pic was just a mock up.
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Offline Chadwick

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 10:26:32 PM »
I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm talking about this.
Yes, it's quick and dirty and the jpeg was uber low to begin with, but,

On black garments only, I see using:
- White
- Lt gray
- medium gray with a blue tint, for simplicities sake
- and a dark gray with a blue tint
( if you want to go overboard )

Substitue the grey for metallic, thinks might look weird.

Just throwin some thoughts your way.
Cheers
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Offline tonypep

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 06:55:55 AM »
Here's the deal Pierre. Liquid silver and many metallics and shimmer are indeed tintable. The best way to tint is with............anyone?
Also consider the clear foil I would add $1.00 for either could go down to .75
Ok I'll spare the suspense, you tint with process inks, especially process black for blk/wht tonal work. Try 45 LPI
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Offline blue moon

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 09:04:59 AM »
Quote from: tonypep on May 23, 2012, 06:55:55 AM
Here's the deal Pierre. Liquid silver and many metallics and shimmer are indeed tintable. The best way to tint is with............anyone?
Also consider the clear foil I would add $1.00 for either could go down to .75
Ok I'll spare the suspense, you tint with process inks, especially process black for blk/wht tonal work. Try 45 LPI

Tony to the rescue!!!

I was about to call Wilflex and have a chat with them this morning, but you just saved me the trouble. Foil would not work as we are still limited to plastisol.  Since I would have to buy liquid silver, we'll add at least $1 per shirt, possibly more. 'gotta make the call now and find out what's to going rate for a quart of this stuff. . .

pierre
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Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline tonypep

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 09:28:54 AM »
No problem buddy......the obvious reason for the process tinting is that their transparency allows the metallic properties to show through. You may have to sniff around for quarts, Nazdar only sells it to me in gals but I believe other distributors will break it down. Last gal I purchased was $120 I believe. So tint with care!
tp
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Offline Colin

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 08:48:43 PM »
Yea, whatever you choose to tint with, make sure it has no white in it.  The white will cloud it very very quickly.  Pigments are great, mixing system colors are great, again, as long as they are clean clear colors.  Process inks work great because of this.

Also, be very careful about cure times... The silver ink reflects heat just like reflective inks do.... it will easily take 1.5 times as long to cure because of this.  And don't ask about flash times... ;)

If you want to over print a clear or gel... that's another topic...

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Offline mk162

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Re: what does it take to print sim process with metallic inks?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2012, 08:46:51 AM »
Tony, I actually knew to tint it with process colors as they are the most transparent colors.
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