Should/Can we coat out in the open shop or use (dark rm environment)?

[Dottonedan]

@ Gilligan

G,  all I said was " lest say". As in (we don't have any real numbers, so let's just make one up for the discussion).

Let's use your numbers and "let's say" 0.00001
Again, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. The point is, light affects the emulsion. Could be by .0000001 or could be by 1% over a couple days and 3% over...xxx fill in your favorite number for now. You are correct tho. I probably will never actually get accurate numbers from a scientist.  I just know it will affect the print at some point.

[GraphicDisorder]

We coat all of our screens in open light, no dark room here. 

[Gilligan]

Dan, the only thing I will say is until we have actual numbers in front of us this whole discussion is rather futile and barely academic, certainly not practical.  We certainly shouldn't even hint at "absolutes".

Does it affect your exposure over a long perod of time?  Yes,  Is it significant enough for you to make a change?  That is up to you and the amount of work and level you want to maintain as your standard.

Is it enough to make a change?  We don't know.  It may not mean a SINGLE dot difference and all this concern might be for nothing.  Then again it might make a more significant difference then even you are speculating it might.

The thing is we have no clue at this moment and until there is data the discussion should keep a VERY hypothetical nature.

[Dottonedan]

You are saying I don't have hard fact proven #'s  so don't discuss it?  Pfft.

[Gilligan]

Not at all Dan, I just said to make sure that we stick to purely HYPOTHETICAL language.

A lot of the way you are saying things are speaking like there ARE hard fast numbers.  Sure you preface it with "if" at the beginning... but the post goes on for like 6 paragraphs and any "ifs" you tossed out there kind a little lost in the discussion.

Maybe I'm just a stickler for facts and proper representation of them.

[Dottonedan]

Maybe im just passionate about it. Lol. But don't bust my balloon man.

Everyone will each take away what they will interpret from my post. Im om with how you feel about it. Call it hocus pocus or a pipe dream I don't mind. I can't help what one person see's as offensive or accurate or inaccurate. It's inaccurate to say light does not affect the outcome at at all. Nobody really said that. It's been said that it doesn't affect it "much". So pretty much, we all have an understanding that ( it does) to some degree.  I'm saying that depending on how long it's exposed, it can affect your stencil and in some cases, to a measurable degree. The actual numbers or % of pre- exposure do not matter to me in this discussion. We aren't that far yet to give precise amounts. If you want to spend 3-500.00 on tracing a 5 gallon bucket, please let us know how it turns out cuz I ain't gonna test it. I'll take whatever word Kiwo has to say and only take 90% of that as all truth also.  Sometimes a supplier doesn't know everything for sure so they just spit out stuff. I would consider Richard Greaves a real honest to goodness authentic guru and don't believe he will say that light does not affect the outcome of emulsion.

Call it .000001 or call it a nano second. Either way, over time you are decreasing your quality.  Again, is it noticeable in all cases?  Now, is it noticeable at all in any case?  I say yes, we will have situations in our normal process were this will be measurable. Some of those shops like a Mirror Image or a Andy Anderson should be able to see these differences. My real stance, is that if it can cause a problem at any point, why do it?

[Gilligan]

I guess it is like a 5 point restraint harness in your car... it would definitely be better to have one but you aren't going out and spending the money to put one in your car nor do you really want to strap into such a thing every time you jot off to the grocery store for milk.  But if/when you get in a wreck (this is more likely to happen and more important than a "not so perfect" t-shirt) a 5 part harness will be a HUGE thing if you had it.  Also do you buy your vehicles based on how many air bags or if they are at the TOP of the safety rating?

Do you always handle fragile items with the care that you should?  Probably not because "chances are, nothing will happen".

So does all this increase the chance of something happening?  Of course it does, so why chance it?  Convenience, time, money... a multitude of things cause us to not operate at 100% the level we should or take EVERY precaution we should.  Almost every minute of every day we make these sorts of compromises with ourselves.

This is just the world we live in... it's far from perfect.

I would like to know what is more of a factor in these "differences"... the ambient light in which you coat in or your imperfections in coating technique (we are human), or inconsistencies from one buck of emulsion to another, or drying time/humidity of the emulsion when exposing, temperature of the water when washing out...  There are just SO many variables that are almost impossible to control I would say it would be EXTREMELY hard to test this in the real world.

BUT, that being said... I absolutely WANT to know the answer to this and I would possibly make adjustments to how/where I coat.

Also, for the record I coat under fluorescents and don't have much outside light coming in (just around the cracks of the doors).  I even block out as much of that light with black bags when I'm moving screens around and registering them for exposure.  I do this even though I watch my buddy and his employees not take hardly ANY precautions... hell, they coat 1:1, dry on their sides and only use a curtain (not even black) to cover their screens (from coating till exposing).  Not ideal at all... BUT they are one of the bigger shops around this area.

[Dottonedan]

All good points. Nobody can take anything you say lightly.

One thing I'd say is do not ever bank on a large shop being efficient or profitable. They are some of the worst. They have the money and resources for all the gadget yet fail at using then when sitting next to them.

[Gilligan]

All good points. Nobody can take anything you say lightly....

I thought we were supposed to be all acting like adults so this discussion could stay educational.

So much for that... I'll step out now since I really don't have any real world experience to bring to the table anyway.

[Dottonedan]

Don't know what your upset over.    Unless I am miss understanding something, my statement you quoted is a compliment. I guess I have to go research what " nobody can take what you say lightly" means in other states.

It was meant to say, you say some serious hard core stuff and have many valid points behind what you say. "nobody can take what you say lightly".  I think that was pretty clear.

[Shawn (EIP)]

I highly doubt coating under shop lights or in a darkroom hardly matters, it works both ways for many people. Big deal lol... can't we all just get along without getting into a nerdy debate?

[Dottonedan]

I'm all about Nerdy. It's what I do, who I am. Don't fight who you are. I'm not Tech Nerdy, just annoyingly nerdy I guess. 

We all really are getting along well. It's just that G apparently miss understood my intentions and it sort torqued him the wrong way. Crap happens. We will live.

[Binkspot]

I do believe Dan is correct, the light in the shop will affect the emulision. How do you grt rid of the last little bit of emulsion. You take the lid off set it in the sun and peal the cured stuff out.

Coating in the ambiant light works for us. Not every shop is the same. Most of our jobs are 1-4 color maybe some half tones or fine detail. We do 4 color and simulated on occasion and they all have turned out fine. Dan did some seps for us about a month ago. We didnt get the job but hope to try it over the summer. It is some cool artwork.

I think the question is what percentage of shops do such detailed work that the ambiant light effects the quality of the finished product.

[Gilligan]

My apologies Dan... we have had some heated discussions in the past and I took you the wrong way.

Sorry about that.

Yes, I too enjoy nerdy... this is one reason why I'm glad Alan is as close as he is... he seems to dig all the ins and outs and behind the scenes that I like to know about.

I'm also passionate about facts and truth and making sure things are clear and not misleading... basically I hate spin and I fight it when sometimes it doesn't need to be fought, sorry if that is what happened here.

[Gilligan]

I do believe Dan is correct, the light in the shop will affect the emulision. How do you grt rid of the last little bit of emulsion. You take the lid off set it in the sun and peal the cured stuff out.

Truly a question out of ignorance here (I'm still on my first gallon of emulsion... hence why I'm probably not qualified to really take part in this discussion).  I just dig the science.

Anyway, wouldn't that last bit of emulsion work the same way if you just left it open in a dark room where it could dry out?  Isn't the leaving it open in the sun also a way to dry it out quickly as well?

I could be completely wrong as I said, it is truly a question of ignorance.