Heresy for screen printing

[DouglasGrigar]

Now that replaceable screen mesh panels are more commonly available...

The smaller the shop the more time efficient you need to be, every moment you are not printing you are NOT making money.

How about not cleaning and reclaiming screens... just replace the screen panels, there are panels for both roller frames and the preset hybrid square frames like the Shur-loc EZ.

You do not have to throw away the panels, save them for slow time to reclaim, or put adds out to sell them!

Add cap film and your prep time is lower (fewer drying steps with the wet degreaser/prep chemical application) and a small shop can be up and printing faster and not spending time reclaiming.

You cannot just count the reclaim time but the lost production, it is not an idea that will fit everyone but in some cases can be the most time efficient profitable way to run a small or one-person shop.

[blue moon]

Hey Doug,

my first reaction is that new panels have to be washed before use and the time spent doing it is not mach less than actually reclaiming a screen. With some of the 300+ mesh panels going for $30+, I can't see the math working in my favor here (if disposing, selling or reclaiming later though it is worth thinking about).

You are a numbers guy, how does your math work here?

pierre

[Evo]

Hmm.

My screen reclaim times are shaved pretty low now. I have a dip tank, and then I use a one step dehaze/degrease, then it's off to the screen room with warm, dry filtered air.

The re-claim times are down to about 1.5 minutes or less for each screen, and the coating goes real quick. Production continues while screens are drying, etc.

Stopping to remove tape and replace panels for single color jobs? No thanks.

[DouglasGrigar]

Hey Doug,

my first reaction is that new panels have to be washed before use and the time spent doing it is not mach less than actually reclaiming a screen. With some of the 300+ mesh panels going for $30+, I can't see the math working in my favor here (if disposing, selling or reclaiming later though it is worth thinking about).

You are a numbers guy, how does your math work here?

pierre

With cap films, you degrease and apply while wet then dry and then expose...

You have to degrease regardless it removes the reclaiming or diverts that time when available.

So how long does it take to collect the screens, place them into the tank, reclaim and go back to printing?

How many shirts can be printed in that time.

This Heresy is specific, may not work in many shops, and evokes lots of emotional resistance.

It is a very targeted idea that works well in busy small shops.

[DouglasGrigar]

Hmm.

My screen reclaim times are shaved pretty low now. I have a dip tank, and then I use a one step dehaze/degrease, then it's off to the screen room with warm, dry filtered air.

The re-claim times are down to about 1.5 minutes or less for each screen, and the coating goes real quick. Production continues while screens are drying, etc.

Stopping to remove tape and replace panels for single color jobs? No thanks.

Exactly how low in time?

And as blue moon noted you do not have to dispose of the mesh, it can be a low day job, and could even be used in conjunction with ?soak tubes? and dip tank chemicals.

It is not for everyone but in the correct shop it works wonders, the small shops are the most likely  to benefit the most, but it will not fit every shop.

Other considerations can be in place, including shops that cannot or should not reclaim because of sewage disposal issues.

[Evo]

It is a very targeted idea that works well in busy small shops.

I can see where you're going with it, and yes it would work very well but I'd imagine within the confines of some pretty specific circumstances.

Single color
Low-ish tension requirements
With roller frames, a Roller Master table or similar would be a very good idea to make this speedy.
Repeat customer with repeat design requirements


For me, I spend the extra time getting my M3 frames up to tension and keeping them there. I am very fond of printing with tight screens. (so are my arms)
For one color repeat designs, (rare) I have some static frames on hand that I catalog and save. The stretched static screens are cheaper than some mesh panels.

[blue moon]

Hey Doug,

my first reaction is that new panels have to be washed before use and the time spent doing it is not mach less than actually reclaiming a screen. With some of the 300+ mesh panels going for $30+, I can't see the math working in my favor here (if disposing, selling or reclaiming later though it is worth thinking about).

You are a numbers guy, how does your math work here?

pierre

With cap films, you degrease and apply while wet then dry and then expose...

You have to degrease regardless it removes the reclaiming or diverts that time when available.

So how long does it take to collect the screens, place them into the tank, reclaim and go back to printing?

How many shirts can be printed in that time.

This Heresy is specific, may not work in many shops, and evokes lots of emotional resistance.

It is a very targeted idea that works well in busy small shops.

I agree that there is a time and place for it and was hoping for some more in depth analysis since you are the type to have it.
EZ frames while quick, still take a few min to remove and replace a panel. If stretched to fast they will pop.

As I type, I am starting to think that more screens might be a better answer.

I do agree that there is a better way for some of the shops. One of my supplier's customers buys wooden screens and does not reclaim them, just puts them away (or so I am told). The cost of the screens is built into the setup.

pierre

[Evo]

EZ frames while quick, still take a few min to remove and replace a panel. If stretched to fast they will pop.

And to me if you are going to take the time to stretch em, stretch up to the max tension the mesh will handle. That's done in stages.

[DouglasGrigar]

I can see where you're going with it, and yes it would work very well but I'd imagine within the confines of some pretty specific circumstances.

Of course, and I agree, personally I would never bother to stretch roller frames without a tensioning table.

Are you familiar with the EZ frames? The hybrid changes some dynamics.

[Evo]

Are you familiar with the EZ frames? The hybrid changes some dynamics.

Familiar with them, but not so interested. I use loose mesh with M3 frames. I can get the corners just right so I can max out the tension over several sessions on the table. I'm one of those guys that looks for "meter stall".

 

[DouglasGrigar]

I agree that there is a time and place for it and was hoping for some more in depth analysis since you are the type to have it.
EZ frames while quick, still take a few min to remove and replace a panel. If stretched to fast they will pop.

As I type, I am starting to think that more screens might be a better answer.

I do agree that there is a better way for some of the shops. One of my supplier's customers buys wooden screens and does not reclaim them, just puts them away (or so I am told). The cost of the screens is built into the setup.

pierre

The issue at heart (at least to me) is the change in the industry that the panels have and can make.

The full impact of retensionable frames is not clear nor do any of us fully understand or could predict where it will end up. Similar to the theories of unintended consequences - the creative use and application of the products will without a doubt change the industry.

I am glad we now have pricing involved with this as it plays a huge part.

I am hesitant to start slinging numbers because I continue to only have a handful of small shops I know working with this idea. Without the existence of the panels the possibilities would not even exist.

Another issue is shipping - full screens aluminum or wood cost more to ship than the panels alone.

The EZ frames will go from panel to finished screen in 53 sec., less than a min. and less to remove...

Exactly how long to pressure spray both sides of the mesh along with ink removal?

And again this in not for everyone.

[DouglasGrigar]

Are you familiar with the EZ frames? The hybrid changes some dynamics.

Familiar with them, but not so interested. I use loose mesh with M3 frames. I can get the corners just right so I can max out the tension over several sessions on the table. I'm one of those guys that looks for "meter stall".

 

It is not for everyone, bypasses many issues heavy users of retensionable frames take as SOP, as you point out.

BTW I do not sell any of the products, in fact I have started removing products the company I am connected with would sell because... well because I want to talk about the products without having to spend time deflecting criticism that I am ?just selling?... that is not my point and never was.

[inkbrigade]

I'm with Jason on this. I have no interest in these. I think a small manual shop might be into it, but no way would a production shop burning 25+ screens a day. Roller Frames, Roller Mesh, work hardened on a Roller Master, can't be beat IMHO.

[DouglasGrigar]

I'm with Jason on this. I have no interest in these. I think a small manual shop might be into it, but no way would a production shop burning 25+ screens a day. Roller Frames, Roller Mesh, work hardened on a Roller Master, can't be beat IMHO.

Do you understand how RARE you are as a printer?

I have a background with a company that owned several large printers all over the US the largest location processed over 200 screens a day and at peak often 300 or more.

Processing screens is a huge chunk of time - imagine the single individual trying to make a living printing...

What is the most profitable activity?

Where can you cut that time, obviously with some cost (the panels) and what benefit?

Emotion and tradition has no actual place in reviewing new products and possible creative procedures. I posted this because it is not that new of an idea, has some very profitable application in the correct situation and has changed and expanded due to the availability of some products.

No one yet (and this is older than a year) has shown where reclaiming screens in a small shop produces a profit, printing produces a profit. If a printer is behind in production on a regular basis and most of the small shops I know are in this position we come to a point where we need to find ways to keep the quality of the product up and the production time down - reclaiming is one area that can be targeted and in some cases replaced (with a cost) or at least that action can be diverted to another time, the panels allow that.

Note I called it heresy for a reason - this one item is likely one of the most controversial in a long time...

Just how widespread is the use of retensionable frames again? And they have been available for how many years?

Targeted that is all.

[tpitman]

I'm with Jason on this. I have no interest in these. I think a small manual shop might be into it, but no way would a production shop burning 25+ screens a day. Roller Frames, Roller Mesh, work hardened on a Roller Master, can't be beat IMHO.

After moving back home with space at a premium, I had put my table up for sale for about 6 months. The going rate for used ones is pitiful, so I decided to keep it and use the hell out of it. Moved some stuff around, built a rack overhead the table for clean screens, and slipped the irreplaceable dorm fridge underneath. Now, as soon as every screen is reclaimed, it goes on the table to check tension, and retension as necessary. About all I use anymore are 156, 195 and 230 mesh counts, and they all are kept at 35nm. Makes a huge difference, and it's a habit you've just got to keep on top of. Way too easy to get lazy and say, "Ahh, it's probably close enough" and then after a month or so, you do check and find the screens at 20-25nm.