Under base question

[Gilligan]

I have a couple of decent size runs coming up (250 and 150) on black 100% cottons.

Pretty basic spot color art... the 250 is a 2 color with gold and white the other is 3 color white, red and grey.

Would there be anything really wrong with doing a Print flash print flash of the underbase making it the white and a real solid underbase and just laying the other colors on the white?  This would save me from having a separate underbase screen.

[Prosperi-Tees]

You could but it would be super heavy on the shirt.

[Prosperi-Tees]

If you do it keep your mesh count high for all colors. 180-230 for white and 230 for colors

[mk162]

there is nothing wrong with it, just like prosperi-tees said, you just have to go higher mesh to make sure the ink isn't super thick.

You could cut an extra screen and go with an underbase gray, just a thought.

[asdprints]

I just finished a run doing that exact thing. I used 156's and p/f/p white then printed gold over it on blue gildan 2000's and they came out great. Customer was very pleased.
Steve

[Frog]

I've done it in the past, but the deciding factor is usually small quantities like a dozen or so. On 150 or 250, it should be a non-issue to add this very small additional expense in to produce the nicest print you can. I'm not going into pricing specifics here, but it should be peanuts, and the education to your client could prove valuable (and make you sound like you know what you're doing!)

[jasonl]

I do it, my house rule is more than 5 dozen gets a top white.  Or if the job maxes out my press and I don't have room for a top white.  I always use an 80 durometer for the white, it lays down less ink, but with sharp detail.  Its really a judgement call on your part, only you know what your client expects.

[pwalsh]

Assuming that the printer has enough available stations on their press to accommodate an additional screen, the decision on whether to print a solid Underbase that serves as a finish white, or whether they should burn and print a separate highlight white screen can be a difficult choice.  I agree with what everyone said about laying a heavy first down white with a PFP can give a heavy hand to the shirt and most times running a lighter Underbase backed up with a highlight white will give a better result. 

With that said, adding an extra screen can put a lot of cost into the job when you consider that to add a highlight white, the printer needs to separate and print another film, coat, expose, tape, ink-up, and register another screen on press, then reclaim the screen and clean the squeegee and flood bar after the job.  If the labor and material costs for doing all this additional work is just $10.00, it would add an extra $0.05 per garment to your production cost on a run of 200 prints.   

If the print run is shorter, or if the cost of producing and setting up the additional screen is higher (I actually think that if the labor and materials are priced realistically that the cost is closer to $20.00 per screen) then adding an additional screen can easily add $0.10 or more to the cost of each garment printed.  Not saying that screen-printers shouldn’t be striving to always produce the highest quality print possible, but I do hope that folks are capturing their true costs in the amount that they charge for their work.   

[Dottonedan]

Everyone is giving some great examples. I can only include the halftone factor. You know, because I'm Dot-Tone.  I'd include that even though you mentioned basic spot colors, that can also be indicating that you might be including basic halftones. If you were to say basic flat art, that would explain (no halftones).
Spot color art can be both flat or halftones. Whether you are using  accurate terminology is not my point and I am in no way making THAT the issue. I just wanted to clarify that before someone said " he said spot color".  Phew!

Anyways, if you are doing basic spot color ( with halftone) and want to use the same screen to do a P/ F/ P, then you can have better halftone results by making sure to include more dot gain compensation. Anything will help. Whatever mesh and whatever line screen, if you gave a 20% fill, cut it back to 15% or something. Once you print it twice, it obviously adds more coverage/gain, making whatever % much heavier. It may not apply here, but can be applied to future jobs.

[Gilligan]

Thanks for all the replies... I'll probably go with a hi-light white, I want to a make a good impression... granted, I'm his next door neighbor (in business) and I'm printing these last minute under the gun for him... so I'm already gonna knock this one out of the park just by getting the job done.  BUT, doing it WELL will just be icing on the cake.  Granted, "services offer diminishing returns as time passes"  So very quickly that "saving his butt" aspect of doing this gig will just disappear.


@Dan, thanks for clarifying that... I didn't know the proper terms and it's good to know... this is "Flat Art", no half tones.  I knew to compensate for dot gain as it's just logical... BUT, I had no clue what was a good starting point so before you even said "for future jobs", I was already taking that mental note. LOL

[Inkworks]

One other option if it's a true spot color job would be to print the underbase of any top colors at ~70% tone to keep those areas from getting too heavy. Any areas that need to be white on the end product are, or course, printed at 100% white.

We tone out our underbase for colors all the time for smaller runs and P,F,P, then lay on the top colours. It lets you get away with 1 white screen and still not end up with bullet-proof prints once you lay on the other colors.

Let me know if I didn't explain that clearly..... lol

[Gilligan]

Perfectly clear... that's a pretty slick way to do it.


Wouldn't I need to PFPF... flashing a 2nd time to avoid mixing the white into the other color?  Or is that just an understood thing and I'm just not in the "know" yet?

[Frog]

I have found that using a half toned base that is printed opaquely, p-f-p, raises the risk of a mottled top coat due to the increased contrast between the dots and the open areas.
However, using different tonal values on an underbase, determined by the needs of the top colors is a great technique.

[Gilligan]

Yeah, I could see that happening.

I'll probably just use a top white, but good to know for other trick jobs.

[Inkworks]

Perfectly clear... that's a pretty slick way to do it.


Wouldn't I need to PFPF... flashing a 2nd time to avoid mixing the white into the other color?  Or is that just an understood thing and I'm just not in the "know" yet?

Yup, PFPF the base, then print the top colours.

It's not for every job, but can save you a screen when it doesn't pay to burn one for small jobs, or if you run out of heads on your press. At 55LPI you'd be tough pressed to spot the underbase as being a tone, yet it can make a print much softer-hand than a full on double printed base.