The late 90s M&R all-air Gauntlet S - opinions?

[Homer]

I would not pay $16-$18,000 for that press. Go look at the a new Diamnodback with servo, revolver...

completely agree. . .it's a perfect second / back up machine. . .leave it at that.

[ScreenFoo]

With the printing on the platens like that, I'd wonder whether it's SOP to crank the pressure out, if it's out of calibration, or both.  Did you check out the platens for warp?
Those frame air locks aren't too much fun--you need adapters, or a chunk of angle iron to span the corners, and it looks like manual clamps for squeegees and floods--that's about an extra minute per head right there on setups. 
I'd say 16-18K would be out of the question,even if the thing's absolutely frickin' perfect with a huge stock of spares.    And the adjective 'clanky' would make me wonder about that... 

On the plus side--I wish they never would have taken the front/rear and single/double off the panel.  That is quite a bit more convenient than hitting buttons repeatedly to put a cursor somewhere to change it on each head individually, IMHO.

Did you ever find out how many impressions it has?

[Admiral]

Is anyone running S mesh on one of these or similar?  This is bugging me, that the air heads will need too much downward pressure to clear the screens and defeat the purpose of using the thin thread mesh.  Not a concern with WB but it would make our plastisol prints look like crap.

I'm using S mesh on a Diamondback. Last week I printed at 22psi through a 150S discharge underbase.  Print with 25-30 psi for plastisol quite often.  Used 20psi on an 80S for foil adhesive that came out awesome. I don't have experience with A/C heads but wish we had them...

Also I wouldn't go with the press you are looking at because of that asking price and with it's age the setup times will be too long and bothersome.  Definitely go for air locks and better frame locks...

[mk162]

too much money.  if it was under $10, it would be perfect!

[Homer]

if you really want it, 8k cash - slap it on his desk. . .people get funny seeing that many one's stacked up. . .I bet you get it.

[mk162]

$8k in singles?  that's a lot of money.

[tonypep]

I would say that the biggest issue with these machines is platen deflection, which, if the pre-press issues are not under control, can result in slightly weaker ink coverage on the top edges of the platen. Most obvious on process and sim process.
tp

Tony I know you're busy but are you telling me that I'll need to adjust art to consider that the front chopper is going to bend my platens out plane when it comes down?
[/quot

No not at all. Usually this is complicated by operator error using the wrong durometer, mesh count, etc where the press op compensates by cranking the pressure. When that happens the deflection is visible. In a perfect world the deflection should be zero.
 This deficiency should affect less than one percent of what most people print on a daily basis.

[Gabe]

if you are willing to $pend 16-18k in this press
i would put it towards a new press.
just my 2 cents

[ZooCity]

Hey, thanks to all for the input, especially those who took time to call or pm me.  Great advice and lot's of food for thought. 

My conclusion:

• It's true, I am going to want a more sophisticated servo/ac press given the print methods I insist on using.
• It's also true that, at the right price, and $17k is not the right price I would agree, this would be a fine stepping stone toward the above referenced machine.

My going plan is to stub out for an auto in the new shop, find the max amount we can afford in monthly payments and then a machine that will serve our needs and fits the price tag when financed.  I would've likely grabbed this one at about half the ask price as many of you were encouraging, you could make back that price quickly and then some.  Double that?...not so much.  But it looks like Bill has buyers lined up anyhow so that's good for him. 

@Tony - gotcha.  It's funny, I read a copy of the manual for this vintage of Gauntlet and it actually recommends you reg a little above due to this issue.   With the thin thread mesh I've learned well the art of using the least amount of pressure possible with my hands and wouldn't forget those lessons transitioning to the auto. 

[ZooCity]

Posting onto this thread to keep info about these presses in one place.

Got a line locally on a 1992 Gauntlet.  Owner pulled it out of production b/c when it was last tuned the tech informed him the "chip" needs replaced.  If I can overcome this I'm grabbing this machine.

I want to say this is that Mitsubishi controller that I heard was no longer manufactured.  Putting my feelers out to see if I can find one but curious if anyone knows what can or can't be done if the right part cannot be found.

thx in advance.

[mk162]

hmm, the one that new the most about that would have been rick at aero.  He's out of the business.  I would check with bill foust or even M&R themselves.  You might be able to put a newer plc in them if the guts are the same.

[ZooCity]

Emails in to both.  Dude that is selling is taking off for a week so I've got time to figure it out. 

eb introduced me to some crazy hardware/software device thing that you can use - arduino.
http://www.arduino.cc/

Honestly, I'll work with whatever I have to seeing how convenient this would be to get an auto for a 5 min drive.  The  thought of the 800 pcs - DC white I'm printing next week makes just about anything automated sound dreamy. 
   

[ScreenFoo]

The Raspberry Pi is one I thought about as well--but you have to keep in mind, however, those processors are not made to hold up to the shock and vibration of machines, and I doubt they would for long.

The other rough part with this would probably be how much work it would be to actually program another controller like that, along with HW interfacing many, many I/O lines.
That being said, I'd love to help, if I get the chance to see someone try.   

The other thing it may be worth checkin on is WHY the chip is "bad".  I ran a similar year GT-8 that liked to take a dump on revolver mode, but ran standard mode like a champ.

[jsheridan]

I want to say this is that Mitsubishi controller that I heard was no longer manufactured.  Putting my feelers out to see if I can find one but curious if anyone knows what can or can't be done if the right part cannot be found.

with a bad controller or program.. you have an elegant paperweight.

the program is long gone as well as those mitsu controllers. I've heard of a few out there sitting on shelves as spares.

[ZooCity]

Picking up a '92 locally first thing in March.  I'm pumped.  The press is in amazing shape considering it's age, insane deal and even has a no shirt detector.  The Omron microprocessor is fine from my inspection, it's a simple issue with the sensor that signals it to start the next cycle when the carriage drops/raises.  Once again reviving this thread in the interest of keeping a lot of info on these machines in one place.

mk, and others, you mentioned having a certain set of parts on hand at all times.  Care to post and share that list here?  I'm lucky in that I have a spare mosier indexer cylinder and a couple of spare carriage bumpers, etc. coming with the machine but I'm sure there's much more to acquire for backup. 

The only 3 upgrades I'm planning on making, right out of the gates are:  putting kip levers on all squeegee/flood angle adjustments, installing air squeegee and flood clamps and, here's the one that may/may not be possible...

...has anyone reworked one of these to allow the squeegee and flood bars to lift at rest, rather than maintaining pressure on the screen all the time?  If I go down that road of installing new valves to allow this I'll probably also want to program it to flood at rest rather than flooding after the dwell is complete.  Not necessary for wb on an auto if you are moving fast enough but would be very, very nice to have.

And one more ?:  it looks like I have room to fit my 25x30 M3s in this press but it looks close, anyone run 25" wide on these.  I know that the max length is 31" and can always buy new 23x31 rollers with the cash I'm saving but would rather just use our current stock.