Still having problems clearing the screen

[Screened Gear]

Wow... ok, I'm printing WAY harder than that... even when I'm trying to be light about it.

How much off contact is that?

I guess I need to drop my handle down some and increase the angle.  I'm coming up way higher and pushing way harder over the top of my squeegee.

Interesting.

On my manual I set all my screens at zero off contact and then move it up as needed. If the ink is thin it stays at zero. If its a thick ink I may get to 2/16ths.

Try printing a shirt the same way I did in the video and you will be fine.

[ZooCity]

Black ink on a white shirt is not like white ink on a black shirt. You don't print them the same. You don't modify your inks the same. Off contact for black ink is not important. Tight screens for black ink is not important. This is the easiest print you can do. You are trying to do it like a white ink print. Thin the ink and print it hard.

Heartily disagree with just about all of that.  But to each their own of course.  I print black almost exactly the same as white-  hard fill stroke, medium-fast push stroke to print.  In fact, I try to sort of normalize the fill/stroke on all the inks I print to ensure better registration.  Two strokes means I did something wrong before printing.  I'm printing a full back 11x17ish this way right now on 350 pcs and I'm sure glad I don't have to add another stroke. 

I typically add 20-50% soft hand or a mix of soft hand and fashion base to WFX Epic Matte Black.  Did the same when I used QCM 911.  I found both blacks to print just fine out of the bucket but prefer the softer hand and decreased gloss with them based down a touch.  It's weird I hear lots of people having this issue with black ink not clearing but I've never really had a problem.  Maybe some brands are using all the scrap pigment to make black and it has bad print properties as a result?  I do notice that a fully opaque, spot black needs to get moving, as most all inks do before loosening up. 

Tension and OC are always important.  Test this yourself.  Make a nice monochrome screen of a black and white photo that you'll print with black only and test the difference between that screen properly set up and cleared in a single clean stroke and the way you were doing it in the video. 

[jsheridan]

The shirt is the problem. sometimes they're so thin you can't get any more ink on or in them.
This could be one of those time when you want a thicker creamier black for better stand up on the fibers versus a thin flowing ink.

[ZooCity]

I wanted a distraction to let my achin bones rest so here's a clip and two pics of what I'm talking about.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U7gc4ya-EsQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Gilligan]

Chris, that is pretty much what I was doing towards the end.  To be more clear, that is when I would get the LIGHTEST stroke I could do comfortably.

Before that I was doing a good heavier.  I'll have to film myself.

This is on Bodek's Next tri-blend 4.3 oz... so it definitely is a THIN shirt!

[Screened Gear]

Black ink on a white shirt is not like white ink on a black shirt. You don't print them the same. You don't modify your inks the same. Off contact for black ink is not important. Tight screens for black ink is not important. This is the easiest print you can do. You are trying to do it like a white ink print. Thin the ink and print it hard.

Heartily disagree with just about all of that.  But to each their own of course.  I print black almost exactly the same as white-  hard fill stroke, medium-fast push stroke to print.  In fact, I try to sort of normalize the fill/stroke on all the inks I print to ensure better registration.  Two strokes means I did something wrong before printing.  I'm printing a full back 11x17ish this way right now on 350 pcs and I'm sure glad I don't have to add another stroke. 

I typically add 20-50% soft hand or a mix of soft hand and fashion base to WFX Epic Matte Black.  Did the same when I used QCM 911.  I found both blacks to print just fine out of the bucket but prefer the softer hand and decreased gloss with them based down a touch.  It's weird I hear lots of people having this issue with black ink not clearing but I've never really had a problem.  Maybe some brands are using all the scrap pigment to make black and it has bad print properties as a result?  I do notice that a fully opaque, spot black needs to get moving, as most all inks do before loosening up. 

Tension and OC are always important.  Test this yourself.  Make a nice monochrome screen of a black and white photo that you'll print with black only and test the difference between that screen properly set up and cleared in a single clean stroke and the way you were doing it in the video.

I do not disagree with you on your points. When I said it’s not important I should have said not as important as printing white. I print the same way (flood - print - clear) on all my prints Manually. I print it fast, much faster than in the video. I only do the clear stroke to insure that I got all the ink out of the screen. It’s not needed every time but the time you needed it, you did it. I am not trying to print as fast as I can just to get it done. I print to make sure that each shirt is as consistent and accurate. You can get good speed with this print style because you don't have to worry about quality. I timed myself once I printed this way at about 150 white on black and 300 black on whites without having to worry about a bad print. I knew that my post and my video would spark some doubts in the way that I print but I knew showing this to Gilligan would help him with his prints. I was just trying to help Gilligan.

I wanted to add I also use alot high mesh than most. I don't even own a 110 screen (ok this is going to spark more people) That is another reason for the clear stroke. I try to make all my prints as thin and smooth as possible. The added work is well worth it to me.

[ZooCity]

Hope I didn't offend and copy that on the dry/clearing stroke and it being a nice buffer when working long runs.  It's easy to get distracted on these and miss a bad print so I do that to from time to time.  But I know it's avoidable so I strive for the one stroke.  Likewise, not judging or getting up on high horse, just trying to help both you all out as I learned most of this the hard way but much of it form other printers on forums like this.  We should all be ripping each others technique apart and driving each other to improve, even where we don't agree. 

Also, this ties back into Peter's suggestion to try everything else before messing with the ink.  Find the lowest/highest acceptable mesh counts for your inks, unmodified, and use this as a start point. 

And honestly I don't have much of a choice.  I shed some staff last year and am now doing all the printing for as long as I can hold out.  Some days it's a battle against time if I want to avoid pulling another all nighter....and speaking of, I better get back to it. 

[Screened Gear]

Hope I didn't offend

I was not offended. I do things different than most. I have tried every way to print manually. I ended up where I am now not for speed, ease of printing or the right way of printing. I ended up this way because it gave me the best repeatable quality and at a fast pace.

Something to try: After seeing your video I would like to suggest a change to your printing. Not to be right but to save you on wear and tear on your shoulders. When you do your flood stroke put the screen down. Don't hold it up like that. If you have off contact you will have no problem with making contact with the shirt. You will also have a more controlled flood since you will be using 2 hands. Just try it and see how much easier it is on the arms. I am a one man shop and when your doing alot of printing small changes like this can make getting up the next day easier.

[Screened Gear]

Tension and OC are always important.  Test this yourself.  Make a nice monochrome screen of a black and white photo that you'll print with black only and test the difference between that screen properly set up and cleared in a single clean stroke and the way you were doing it in the video.

Zoo,

I wanted to show you one of my black prints on white I did this last week. This was on a 156 with about 18n static, OC next to nothing with unions black ink printed manually flood/push print/clear on a gildan 6.1.

[ZooCity]

Well that there is a good looking print coming off a setup like that.  I guess it proves that you have a lot of room to work with in certain scenarios.  The low-tension static with no o.c. and a double stroke yielded similar results to my fancy roller frames, triple-duro blade, careful off contact and fill stroke method.  If you think about it, a lot more labor went into my setup pre-press than yours but yours did the same job when it came to spot color fills of black on lights.   

Here's the catch though- if we did a side by side on this with white ink on darks we might see another result.  My approach is to treat every screen the same no matter how difficult or simple the print.  I probably lose a little on some work and win a little on others with this approach. 

Thanks for the tip on not lifting the screen.  Sucks for me but I can't leave it down with the hard flood.  It would inevitably print the shirt on the flood.  I had one employee use his belt buckle/stomach to rest the top of the screen and do the flood two handed.  If you listen in the vid you can hear the blade whistling on the flood.  There's about as much pressure as a print stroke going on there. 

It's a trade-off:  One thing that the method in the quick video allows is consistency across printers.  If you have the mesh type, tension, eom, off contact and ink under control you can have multiple printers pull identical, and I mean really close to each other, prints with the hard fill method as it meters out just as much ink as the stencil allows during the fill stroke.  It takes a lot of the high-level skill out of the process and lets your printers focus on their stroke pressure, speed and angle. 

[Gilligan]

Keep it coming guys... I'm reading every bit of it!

[Screened Gear]

Well that there is a good looking print coming off a setup like that.  I guess it proves that you have a lot of room to work with in certain scenarios.  The low-tension static with no o.c. and a double stroke yielded similar results to my fancy roller frames, triple-duro blade, careful off contact and fill stroke method.  If you think about it, a lot more labor went into my setup pre-press than yours but yours did the same job when it came to spot color fills of black on lights.   

Here's the catch though- if we did a side by side on this with white ink on darks we might see another result.  My approach is to treat every screen the same no matter how difficult or simple the print.  I probably lose a little on some work and win a little on others with this approach. 

Thanks for the tip on not lifting the screen.  Sucks for me but I can't leave it down with the hard flood.  It would inevitably print the shirt on the flood.  I had one employee use his belt buckle/stomach to rest the top of the screen and do the flood two handed.  If you listen in the vid you can hear the blade whistling on the flood.  There's about as much pressure as a print stroke going on there. 

It's a trade-off:  One thing that the method in the quick video allows is consistency across printers.  If you have the mesh type, tension, eom, off contact and ink under control you can have multiple printers pull identical, and I mean really close to each other, prints with the hard fill method as it meters out just as much ink as the stencil allows during the fill stroke.  It takes a lot of the high-level skill out of the process and lets your printers focus on their stroke pressure, speed and angle.

Zoo,

I am not challenging you in any way. I am the kind of person that is always looking for a better way to do something. Not just better for speed, quality or equiptment but the best of all of them. I have never printed with rollers. I owned about 12 at one time but sold them because they sat for too long. I just didn't have the time to learn something new. (I know I should have tried them, I did make about $100 on reselling them) I have only been printing for 3 years and I have changed my printing style numerous times and this is where I stayed. I am now going through the same steps on my auto. I can print well on it but I know I can do much better. Its not the press its me. I can print great shirts manually, I would challenge anyone on print quality and be confident it would be close. On my auto, I still need to get better. I would say I am about 85% there (I have very high standards). The last 15% will take about a year. I am trying to figure everything out on statics then move to EZ frames. I know tension helps alot but I also know it can be done with less. My statics are 15n to about 24n more are over 20n then under.

Below is a few pics of other prints I had laying around, same print style for white and colors. The close up on the white is at 800% I think.

[ZooCity]

Right there with ya.  I guess I don't think I feel challenged but if I do, it's in a good way! 

On those white print pics- I see room for improvement and, by my eye, I think either tension, o.c. or preferably both would be those improvements and easy ones to make. Note the little columns of ink sticking up in the shape of the mesh, this could go with just a little o.c. or a little more tension.  Gotta stick to my guns on that.  I've ran statics just like you and I'm here to tell ya, every couple newtons over 20 that you can get makes a huge difference all the way up to about 35-40.  Higher than that, you need to make an epic leap to like 60 n/cm to see a big difference.  But down at the lower end you really notice it.  I wish there was a way you could try just one screen at 35 n/cm.  Same mesh as your statics. 

I too seem to change at least something in my methods every year or so.  Those of us who dedicate themselves to making good prints will do so with all the methods we decide to screw around with is what I've found so far.  The rest comes down to personal preference and the market you're serving. 

[Ripcord]

In response to the original post...If you're printing black ink on white shirts, you are working way too damn hard!

For black on white, use about a 160 mesh at about 25-30 newtons and don't be overly concerned about the specific amount of off-contact. Just set it so there's a slight bit of distance between the shirt and screen, just enough so the screen comes off the shirt by itself after the stroke. It's not that big of a deal for spot color work. Give each shirt a couple of nice slow firm strokes (sometimes I do three if there are big solids...)

If you made a good stencil , this should result in a nice opaque print. Depending upon your preference, you may want to reduce your ink a little, but not for ease of printing...More for a thinner, softer print.

I know I'll get yelled at for this, but I think printing manually with 230 mesh when there are no halftones in the design is excess work and can result in potential problems with no improvement in print quality....

[Gilligan]

Well, to clear up this particular job and the whys.

I have attached pics of the artwork.

There was half-tones and the customer was very concerned about them coming out.

At 25lpi I really wasn't happy with them... I guess I need to increase that to get better looking halftones on jobs like this.

Oh, and the image was about 6" wide.