Retensionables

[Prosperi-Tees]

Newman, Diamond Chase, Hix, what are the others and what should I look for? Want to start building an inventory slowly but figure I should stay with one brand, correct?

[Nation03]

I'd say Newman M3's and Shurloc EZs are your best bet.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Would Newman M3s be more common in the used market?

[jsheridan]

Your ultimate end game is to buy and use a Roller Master table.. this narrows your frame choice to two.. Newman MZX or M3.


The MZX (1-7/16 diameter) is unchanged for the last 10 or so years.  It's designed as a manual frame and is very lightweight. Max tension is 30 newtons. They can be pulled to 40n but they deflect and can warp resulting in end cap failure. Usually silver in color.

The M3 (1-5/8 diameter). it's been changed to many times to list. These are high tension frames for automatics and will pull mesh to over 100n w/out deflecting the roller tubes. They are heavy, reinforced and are generally blue in color.

Both styles retain their value over the years. A  used 10 year old frame sells for the same as a 2 year old one.

The biggest change for all frames was the introduction of the beveled corners. They added a 2 degree bevel so when you tighten the bolts, they force the tubes to bend outward and reverse the tube deflection that plagued the early verisons of frames. This started around 2003/2004 and really threw a wrench in my tension charts. This bevel can raise the final tension 5+ newtons and requires a sequenced tightening pattern when using a roller master table.

The next major change was the move to black oxide bolts with the anti-seize baked onto them and sealed end tubes. Prior to this change, they used stainless bolts, washers, and these funky plastic seals with copper anti-sieze on the threads that went through the end caps. This style frame has a habit of leaking when torqued to less than 55lbs and  placed into a dip tank. You didn't know it leaked until you exposed it.. where you found a puddle on the glass and wet emulsion... yeah those were some bad years. The down side of the black bolts.. they rust in the diptank and when you add metal to reclaim salts.. it stains the aluminum if you happen to leave the frames in the diptank overnight.

Check to make sure it's a real Newman.. check the corners and you'll find Newman roller frame cast into the metal. If you don't see that.. don't buy them.

If the frame has black nylon end caps.. pass as those are first generation frames.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Great advice John and I was just about to say I just watched the shurloc ez frame video and well it looked ez. What are the disadvantages to the ez frame? One I noticed is that you can't adjust tension levels or at least as far as I can tell

[Admiral]

You can't go wrong with newmans

MZX go up to 35N, all I need with murakami S thread meshes (only the 200S touches the upper limit)

we have quite a few M3's as well though but MZX are easier to handle, might have a slightly larger image area or at least the corners aren't as soft as they are on M3s with shurloc panels

If you are going with newman mesh or standard mesh I would say definitely M3's though.  Roller table is awesome...

[jsheridan]

Great advice John and I was just about to say I just watched the shurloc ez frame video and well it looked ez. What are the disadvantages to the ez frame? One I noticed is that you can't adjust tension levels or at least as far as I can tell

Screened Gear and I got a demonstration from Shur-Loc and my only real honest complaint was the heft of the frame.. it was heavy. The mesh panel and the tool you use to put it in the frame are very well designed and easy to use. The mesh panel is made to relax down to a stable tension after the initial load of the panel. Start high and drop down where it will stay for a longer period is the design behind it. It's a longer lasting static frame in reality, which is still better than normal static frames.

The panels aren't cheap and if you go the route of converting your static frames into Ez frames via the attached rails, your frames are now 2" tall. This means you need new screen racks and the ability to hold 2" in your screen holder, not to mention your dip tank capacity just changed as well.

[tpitman]

Unmentioned, but unremarkable are the Sefar knockoffs of the Newman MZX frames. I've got 8 and my biggest beef with them is the weight . . . heavier than any Newman MZX I've got, either the new silver ones or the old blue anodized (my favorite) or powdercoated ones. In a couple of instances the bolt bottomed out in the hole in the tube end, and I had to shim out with a washer.
For the difference in price, which isn't much, get the Newmans.
Hix? I have no idea.
Diamond Chase? I've got 6 of these, and while the quality is good, getting the locking rods inserted with the "pizza wheel" is a pain in the a$$. That, and they're expensive, and you can't use them with a Newman table. The one feature they have is alternate left- and right-hand bolts on each tube end, which is supposed to promote a flat screen when you're snugging them down. Seems to work. I was gonna sell mine, but meshed 'em up with some 83 mesh I had laying around, and I use 'em for doing athletic number plastisol transfers.

[Homer]

I'm doing the same as you,  I have a shop full of panelframes and when that deal started to sour, I had to bail. Although I am hearing they are on the way back, you may be interested in checking out the roller version of the panleframe. It's called the green screen. The table is 400.00, frames are 60.00, panels are 100.00/6. .not a bad way to get started. The major downfall though is the resale value, they don't have as much pull as an M3, and the tube diameter isn't the same, and it's not an M3. . . . I ended up buying a boat load of brand new M3's. . .I may pick up a dozen of the green rollers to check out, can't hurt.

[alan802]

I've got about 60 Shurloc EZ's and 80 newman rollers.  About half of my newman rollers are FIRST batch, first generation but they work.  They won't fit on the roller master but I'm pretty good at tensioning by hand.  I really like the shurloc ez frame system, but they aren't as good as a newman m3 or even an mzx.  They are light years better than static aluminums, but they are heavy and expensive.  I certainly don't regret buying the ez's, but I think I'll keep my current inventory level the same and start putting S thread mesh in all of the shurlocs or other mesh counts that aren't capable of high tension.  If a mesh manufacturer could make a mesh that didn't lose tension after the first stretching, then the ez's would really shine, but right now you can expect tension losses in the 15-20% after the initial panel install.  One thing I've noticed is the mesh doesn't relax or drop as bad as it does on newman rollers for whatever reason.  I don't know if shurloc works the mesh a little bit or what they do to keep the tension from falling really far but a 156 will be at about 40 newtons when first stretched then it will eventually stabilize around 33-36.  The ez's are built very well, and they'll likely last longer than most shops will be in business.

[ScreenFoo]

Fully in agreement with the Newman camp here.   I've never seen a knock-off I wanted to even try--but I was well indoctrinated early on in my career.  We even have a couple of those ancient square bar M1's, corners still intact.  Still use them every once in a while... gotta keep them in nice shape for the museum.   

I'd get rid of just about any other 'non-essential' item in the shop before I got rid of the rollers... 

[Socalfmf]

Great advice from all...we have 100+ M3's....all with shur-loc panels...get the table as well...we have all of our screens within 2 newtons of each other...( thanks Dave from Bimm Riddle)  and our set ups are lighting fast now....especially with Tri-loc and good frames and awesome tension...again it is the SYSTEM...

Sam

[bimmridder]

Sam, not trying to be cocky, but I wish more people would listen. I guess good screens just take too much time and don't make a difference, huh?

[Prosperi-Tees]

I've got about 60 Shurloc EZ's and 80 newman rollers.  About half of my newman rollers are FIRST batch, first generation but they work.  They won't fit on the roller master but I'm pretty good at tensioning by hand.  I really like the shurloc ez frame system, but they aren't as good as a newman m3 or even an mzx.  They are light years better than static aluminums, but they are heavy and expensive.  I certainly don't regret buying the ez's, but I think I'll keep my current inventory level the same and start putting S thread mesh in all of the shurlocs or other mesh counts that aren't capable of high tension.  If a mesh manufacturer could make a mesh that didn't lose tension after the first stretching, then the ez's would really shine, but right now you can expect tension losses in the 15-20% after the initial panel install.  One thing I've noticed is the mesh doesn't relax or drop as bad as it does on newman rollers for whatever reason.  I don't know if shurloc works the mesh a little bit or what they do to keep the tension from falling really far but a 156 will be at about 40 newtons when first stretched then it will eventually stabilize around 33-36.  The ez's are built very well, and they'll likely last longer than most shops will be in business.

I like the thought of the EZs because I am definitely not a very mechanical person so the process seems faster and less fool (me) proof. I know it will cost a little more upfront but if they last forever then why not. Have you ever converted a static to the ez frame system? I have about 18 23x31 statics that would probably get me started on a cheaper route.

[alan802]

I have tried the conversion kit for statics (halfassed) and I can see how that might benefit some, but it's not for me.  I might revisit it in the future but right now I'd rather find a good deal on used newmans and go that route.