Photoshop Seps - Channels or Layers?

[Nation03]

Can someone tell me the benefit of doing seps in channels instead of layers? Channels always seem to take longer for me, but I've always wondered the benefits of channels vs layers.

[rusty]

I'm sure there are better reasons but don't you need to need art seperated  in channels for RIP software? Can you do CMYK or sim process in layers?

[3Deep]

Hmmm, I've always created my art in layers then sepped in channels, I'm sure I've did very simple art from a layer then turn it all black and printed, but channels for me just gives you more options for printing seps, but that is a good question maybe some of the real pros here will give there opinions...Dan, Rob, Homer, Tony, Steve etc where you at on this?

[Nation03]

I'm sure there are better reasons but don't you need to need art seperated  in channels for RIP software? Can you do CMYK or sim process in layers?

Sounds accurate. I don't use a rip and when I do print halftones I just convert them myself. I have no skills at separating sim process but I imagine channels are needed for that as well. Most of what I print is spot colors so layers rarely give me any issues but I'd like to learn more about doing channel seps eventually.

[ebscreen]

Not a pro by any means but for us channels (spot color) gives better ability to preview how something will
actually print and make adjustments. Also, we print from Illy (PS print interface leaves much to be desired)
and all you do is drag and drop your PS file into Illy, delete the composite layer, and you're left with selectable spot colors
allowing you to add vector elements if need be etc. It's a relatively convenient workflow.

Reminds me, you can load a layer as selection (ctrl+click layer preview I think) and save as a channel pretty easily.
Might be common knowledge, but some of the stuff us red-headed-stepchildren-of-the-printing-industry do in Adobe
products isn't well documented.

[Sbrem]

Can someone tell me the benefit of doing seps in channels instead of layers? Channels always seem to take longer for me, but I've always wondered the benefits of channels vs layers.

For me, that's how I was taught way back. We'd take an image into two files, one RGB, and the other CMYK, just to get 7 different channels to work with to get started. In layers, I make changes to the art if necessary, and then created a channel for that change (extremely easy). You can save your channels as spot PMS colors, and your black and whites can also be saved as spot colors as well by adding to their names; I use Black spot and White spot, if there 2 whites, then they are titled Underbase white, and highlight white. Once the channels are saved, we save as .psd, and import that into Illustrator to print films, the file adds it's spot color names to your color pallet in Illustrator. Then, I delete All Unused Colors from the pallet, leaving just the spot colors behind. This makes it very easy to make the color tags the proper spot color. That's why we do that here...

Steve

Steve

[rusty]

some of the stuff us red-headed-stepchildren-of-the-printing-industry do in Adobe
products isn't well documented.

First of all, as a former red headed child I feel attacked, and second...yeah I was never shown how to do a lot of things properly in photoshop. I am sure a few of my bastard techniques would make the pros cringe. That and how slow I am.

Currently making my way through the Mitch Different book.

[Dottonedan]

First and foremost, I’m so glad someone brought this up.


There are “separation”settings one must set up in Photoshop that Gets applied during the conversions. RGB to CMYK, A greyscale channel to a spot color (in your file). THEN, you also need to be sure these are embedded with your file. SO that you don’t open it up in another program to print film...and THAT programs color settings override what you really want.  This pertains to gain and various areas of the tonal curves on all greyscale seps (very important for 4 color process) and now channel (spot) color seps.  So wether you use Layers to do your seps or Channels, the benefit is in the conversion.


If you don’t know about color settings in Photoshop, and you are outputting from layers...then the settings that are already in your photoshop by default...and being Locked into your file. That’s not a good thing if you are printing anything with TONE.  It’s not set up for screen printings...and gain...and Total ink limit...and UCR or GCR.  Well, it is...but it’s the Adobe default.


For a lot of people, that’s not a problem since they don’t get into too much tricky stuff and are not in the business to print to perfection. This applies to the people that just get a file into Photoshop and print the original CMYK conversion using nothing but the default and wonder why the print isn’t looking good. There’s more....


When you send from layers, it’s taking the layer and converting it to an only black at output. But, BUT, there is no correct CMYK conversion going on there. You are dropping it into another program and applying THOSE color settings whatever they may be. Some people will then send that RGB or CMYK layer to a AUTO SEPARATION program that essentially applies the setting that it has build in. Again, less control. Those, should be designed dot convert with some compensation, but after testing almost everyone there is, I don’t see them converting (as well) as I do it or other pro separators. That may be more due to it applying some form of compensation (for all images across the board) and ALL printers as like an average. Guessing.

[Nation03]

Kind of makes my head spin trying to decode this information lol. Is there a course or youtube video anyone can recommend? My layer separations have never really been an issue, but I don't do tonal prints all that often and when halftones are involved it's usually simple enough that I can get by. That being said I do like to improve my process and quality wherever I can so I'm open to learning new techniques.

[brandon]

If you don't have an art department or too busy even for them send it out. The money spent will save you time which in my opinion is twice as important as money because it lets you make more money.

[Nation03]

I send out the complicated sim process stuff, but thats once maybe twice per year. Mostly everything I do is 4 colors or less spot colors for the most part. Doing seps in layers and outputting the film through PS has never been an issue for me for the most part but I was just curious about the topic since most people I know use channels and tend to output films in AI.

[Sbrem]

The reason I use Channels and import them into Illustrator comes from the earlier days, when computers were slower, so we'd bring the Channels into Illustrator and create our text there, and since the channels brought in the colors to the Illustrator Color Pallet, those are the colors that would be used for the text so it would output correctly. Now days, that's really not so necessary.

Steve

[Frog]

I use channels (along with Color Range) simply because that's how I learned to it back with Photoshop 5.