Author Topic: cmyk angles anyone?  (Read 3768 times)

Offline tonypep

  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5679
cmyk angles anyone?
« on: September 12, 2020, 03:12:44 PM »
Curious as to what others use and how they may differ
tp


Offline balloonguy

  • !!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 984
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 04:49:40 PM »
cyan      37.5
magenta   7.5
yellow      52.5
black      67.50
anywhere from 45 -65 lpi and elliptical dots.
When you dig grave will you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain?

Offline 3Deep

  • !!!
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 06:29:56 PM »
22.5 for all colors 45 lpi or 55 lpi round dot sometimes but mostly elliptical has worked fine for me
Life is like Kool-Aid, gotta add sugar/hardwork to make it sweet!!

Offline farmboygraphics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 08:50:26 AM »
55 LPI
300 S-Mesh
C - 15 / M - 45 / Y&K - 75
Myself and the customers have always been happy with the results, but I'm not opposed to switching it up.
Tees and Coffee

Offline blue moon

  • Administrator
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 03:19:10 PM »
22.5
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Sbrem

  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6055
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 10:21:51 AM »
I can never seem to settle, 22.5 mostly, but also have good results with 61, 50 - 55 line, elliptical. I have this little 4 x 6 notebook from '93, the formula I have in there is C 15, M 45, Y and K 75. Lastly, and not sure where it came from but, C 22.5,  M 67.5, Y 0, and K 45. The logic for Yellow at 0° was, "the moire won't show".

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline Dottonedan

  • Administrator
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5907
  • Email me at art@designsbydottone.com
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 09:56:34 AM »
I avoid using different angles. No need for them. When you do, it just introduces additional issues we don’t need.  22.5 on all has worked over and over. We even won a 1st place in 4 clr process with 22.5 if that tells us anything.
Artist & high end separator, Owner of The Vinyl Hub, Owner of Dot-Tone-Designs, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 35 yrs in the apparel industry. e-mail art@designsbydottone.com

Offline balloonguy

  • !!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 984
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 10:00:26 AM »
I don't do much cmyk but I may run an old job at 22.5 just to compare the prints... Thanks to all for keeping me honest!

When you dig grave will you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain?

Offline bimmridder

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1883
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 10:50:03 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong, and correct me if so, but wouldn't mesh count and thread diameter make a difference in angle (Ideal) used?
Barth Gimble

Printing  (not well) for 35 years. Strong in licensed sports apparel. Plastisol printer. Located in Cedar Rapids, IA

Offline blue moon

  • Administrator
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 11:12:08 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong, and correct me if so, but wouldn't mesh count and thread diameter make a difference in angle (Ideal) used?

they absolutely would! but it's a T-shirt for crying out loud! If it looks good from 3 feet away we have done our job well.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Dottonedan

  • Administrator
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5907
  • Email me at art@designsbydottone.com
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 11:30:22 AM »
I don't do much cmyk but I may run an old job at 22.5 just to compare the prints... Thanks to all for keeping me honest!


This would be great to see in comparison.


I think really, the only minute benefit of the multiple angles is that when using the multiple angles, it tends to form an ever so slightly better amount of  “detail” in texture and possibly a more controlled intended color as posed to a single angle but I believe that really to be about the color management in your output setups.


Really, when people do cmyk, or want to, they look back at what other people typically do ...and a lot of the angle information with cmyk stems back to paper printing at higher lpi such as 85lpi at a minimum. That’s where we get the idea that you need multiple angles in connection with cmyk “to form this rosette pattern”.


In application, It’s not so much a benefit for apparel in my opinion. We use a much Lower lpi, than one can really benefit from using the rosette patterns (improving texture detail) in mid tones and highlights for 85-130lpi for example...and we have so many other variables to contend with like our garment texture, weave, thickness, saturation, deflection etc.
Artist & high end separator, Owner of The Vinyl Hub, Owner of Dot-Tone-Designs, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 35 yrs in the apparel industry. e-mail art@designsbydottone.com

Offline Dottonedan

  • Administrator
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5907
  • Email me at art@designsbydottone.com
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 11:41:16 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong, and correct me if so, but wouldn't mesh count and thread diameter make a difference in angle (Ideal) used?


I know I’ve used Saati mesh and have done 4 color process on 350 mesh, 305 mesh, 280 mesh and even on 230 mesh.
I've used 22.5 on all.   One might find that a certain mesh thread diameter might work best for them and may be justified in saying so. I don’t/won’t disagree.


I do believe tho, that a lot of the questions like (will it work on this or that thread best) is purely a result of compensation in your color profiles when doing the RGB to cmyk conversion and then adjusting for any additional gain. It’s the same theory of needing to adjust the conversion when using this ink or that ink brand.  Brands do make a difference.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 01:25:56 PM by Dottonedan »
Artist & high end separator, Owner of The Vinyl Hub, Owner of Dot-Tone-Designs, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 35 yrs in the apparel industry. e-mail art@designsbydottone.com

Offline bimmridder

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1883
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2020, 01:23:14 PM »
My mistake. Back to my corner.
Barth Gimble

Printing  (not well) for 35 years. Strong in licensed sports apparel. Plastisol printer. Located in Cedar Rapids, IA

Offline farmboygraphics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 01:43:07 PM »
Great info, at least for me. I've always used just one on sim process (25 at 55 lpi) and have always thought I had to switch it up for process. I've also wondered if I could get away with it on a 225 mesh if all my 300 were being used and I was in a tight spot. If I ever get some free time I'm going to play around with this.
Tees and Coffee

Offline blue moon

  • Administrator
  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
Re: cmyk angles anyone?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2020, 01:56:37 PM »
My mistake. Back to my corner.

no mistake on your part! it does make a difference and there is a benefit to getting the most out of each parameter, but I believe that squeezing out the last 10% is not visible to the average customer and it is not worth the headache it causes. So in theory, 22.5 is a bad angle as it would hit every other knuckle and would create a moire, but in real life no screen is perfectly square and those dots end up missing most of the knuckles. Similarly, some angles are better for some mesh then the others, but you really have to be working on Andy Anderson level to see those differences consistently. All for something that 99.999999% of the customers are not going to appreciate.
so back to your point, yes, it does make a difference. is it worth it though will depend on how dialed in is your shop. In your case, I believe it is pretty good and might be done without much additional effort. for us that is not the case. we give our customers the 90% and they are happy.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!