Anyone done comparisons between wax units?

[TCT]

In line with my last few posts we will most likely be moving and expanding in the next 2-3 months. One thing I was evaluating is getting a new CTS unit and switching from ink to wax.

Has anyone done any in depth comparisons between the Douthitt(CTS 30 to be exact) and the Exile Spyder III (DTS 30)?
I have talked with Mark from Douthitt numerous times at shows and they are great people. Have heard nothing but wonderful things about them and their support. But I also want to collect info on the other options to make a informed decision. 

[bimmridder]

What do you want to know?

[TCT]

What do you want to know?

I want to know if anyone has done any footwork here to save me time   
Really, just if people had compared the two units and which way they went with and why/are they happy they did.

[zanegun08]

which way they went with and why/are they happy they did.

We've had our Spyder II for over 3 years now.  I was interested in the Douthitt, and Mark with Douthitt is a great guy who still is nice and helpful even though we are not a customer.

When it was between the Spyder II and Douthitt, I wanted to get the Douthitt, however the owner chose Spyder II for probably little more reason than to choose something different (but very similar) to what I was recommending.

However I've been very happy with the decision, Exile's support is great, we've had to do 1 new print head in 3 years, and the machine has very little maintenance and the parts are mostly swappable without the need for a tech to come out.  Which is important part of the decision as every machine is great when it works, it's how easy it is to get back up and running that matters to a business.

Since the Spyder III, now the main difference is that Spyder III has higher DPI, it claims to print faster with less ink usage, the screen is larger and a touch screen (which I'm not sure if the Douthitt is) and it prints bi-directional for faster throughput (not sure if Douthitt added that).

I'm not a dot snob, and most of our work is vector spot colors, so the DPI doesn't mean much to me, however if you do a lot of Simprocess or halftone work then I'm sure it would have a benefit for the higher DPI, but you are only as good as your separations and all the rest of the process and I'm not really a believer in excessively high LPI for halftones.

Either decision is going to be a great change from films, the wax is super resilient and will work with your current emulsion where inkjet may not.  I would look at cost, software for the rip (probably the same RTI Harlequin RIP) and the software for printing screens (Exile made some changes to software on site for easier usability which I thought was cool of them (Thanks JC)), then any features you may think you would like, touch screen I thought was a gimmick but it's kind of nice, bi-directional printing is a must for vector work as it is about twice as fast, and not to knock Douthitt as it is tried and true technology, but I like that Exile is doing things to improve it, and they've retro fitted ours with improved design elements (screen fastening system, tri-loc blocks) mainly at no cost.

Long story short, either decision is good, at the time of purchase Exile was an unknown as the product was pretty new to them and we were some of their first customers and it was just after they rebranded from Oyo to Exile, but they have came through in a big way and I see them as more of a partner than just a dealer.

Maybe Eric can chime in as they have the Spyder III

[Dottonedan]

DOT SNOB.   LOL.  LOVE IT. I’m keeping that one.


I was actually surprised to find that marks machine prints at 6 pass Uni directional only. My guess is the wax makeup 6 pass uni allows for a better halftone shadow print.


And not knowing much about wax machines, I had thought that the Spider was one of Marks older models. Shows what I know of wax.  But hasn’t the Spider machine been around for like 10 years or more?

[ZooCity]

Those machines are very similar and the base models both run at 600dpi/ppi.  Pretty familiar with both but have only run one of 'em.   Both companies are excellent for service, above the bar for our industry.  I was nothing but impressed with Exile and Douthitt has a very high reputation with the users I spoke with.

Is Kiwo still in this game?  When we were purchasing I wanted what was called an XTS at that time but they weren't ready to sell it.

Assuming similar uptime across the models (this is critical), I'd go with the one with the workflow that fits your shop.  It's more important than masking media choice, resolution, speed, paint color, whatever.   And when I say workflow I mean the whole process, the RIP flow, the way the drum loads, how the machine fits in your physical space, how tech support is done, all that.   Also critical is the machine's ability to force all operators to accurately load the screens or you'll never reap the pre-reg benefits. 

As far as res goes, if you aren't printing flatstock or higher lpi/detail work and if you don't need exacting linearization control of your 'tones it's not really a factor.   I'll always take higher res over speed when I can get it but I'm totallllllly a dot snob. 

[TCT]

Is Kiwo still in this game?  When we were purchasing I wanted what was called an XTS at that time but they weren't ready to sell it.

Kiwo is still out there yes, I just have no desire to give any money to the local distributor, so for us they are out.

[Jepaul]

Danny currently has a douthitt and a spyder in his shop and he’s also had the Kiwo XTS.  So he’s probably the best resource for wax machine comparisons.

[Colin]

Jepaul - I was just about to mention the same.

Out of everyone here, I think Danny is the only one with hands on for all 3 units in question.

Eric has had a Spyder 3 for some time now - so he could also chime in - He is a big fan of the model.

Zane - I have seen Douthits with touch screen - do not know if it is standard.

[Logowear]

A big difference is the Kiwo doesn't use a drum. This could make a difference in registration. Not stretching the screen. The head retracts to move into position to print.

[ericheartsu]

A big difference is the Kiwo doesn't use a drum. This could make a difference in registration. Not stretching the screen. The head retracts to move into position to print.

THIS IS A GREAT COMMENT. I know danny has done some work to his Sypder, Douthitt, and Kiwo particularly on the drum.

[Maxie]

I am based in Israel and their is no service of anykind for most of our equiptment.     I was very nervious about going Wax because if the unit gave me trouble I'd be stuck.
I heard amazing things about Douthitts service and because of this I bought one.
Mark's service has been amazing, I'm 7 hours ahead of Detroit and he get's up in the middle of the night to help.
I flew to Detroit to learn how to set up and service and maintain the unit.      Also went to Minds Eye for a weekend seminar on using CTS.
Very happy with my unit and know nothing about the others.      One good thing about Douthitt is that they make them, they really know how to answer any question one might have.
They do make a unit that prints in both directions but I was told that printing in one direction gives better results, and the unit is cheaper.     I went with this.     I don't produce that many screens.
One thing I can say is that everything I was told about your work flow improving etc was spot on.      CTS is definately the way to go.

[1964GN]

Our Douthitt CTS30 prints bidirectional (purchased new last November).. I'm not a fan of the touch screen unless your operator is strictly imaging and not doing the wash out. Wet fingers don't mix well with touch screens, or the little track pad on keyboard.

The drum has been a non-issue for us and MHM pins. Before we installed the MHM's we were using it with our ROQs using the clamp system on the CTS. The amount of pressure on the drum was massive! With the MHM pins it's very minimal. Almost not noticeable. I would reach out to Danny. I know he has had to make a fair amount of modifications to the CTS to reduce the amount of pressure on the drum using the clamp system. OR just get MHM presses

[TCT]

Is the drum you guys are talking about the same basically as the pusher frame on our I-image?

[twins]

We run a spyder II and we are in Minnesota. One thing that is huge with these things is support.

Exile is a great company to work with support wise. The warranty is great - They will fly up from texas if needed, and sometimes even if not needed.

They also will remote in and help if needed.