Red discharge HAS TO BE printed last.

[Cole]

I've been having this issue with red discharge where it becomes super pastel and muted if I don't print it last in the print sequence. I started using discharge inks three years ago and they account for 75% of the work that I do, but I cannot get past this problem. I've tried using more activator, less activator, higher mesh, lower mesh, 180 degree pallets, higher angle, lower angle. I just cannot figure this one out. Let me explain a scenario.

Automatic press. 6 color job. Butt to butt registration. All 180-s mesh. White, blue, tan, red, yellow, black. Since discharge is always supposed to be printed wet on wet (or so I'm told from manufacturers) I tried printing the job like this.

1-yellow
2-blue
3-tan
4-red
5-white
6-black

This is what I tried at first and the red was coming out super dull. Since I already knew that this was going to be an issue, I tried printing only the red, ran it through the dryer, then compared it to the print that had all the colors in it. The stand alone red was way brighter than the red that was in the full print. This told me that my activator in the red was correct and it had to be an issue with the screen after the red. So I ended up printing 5 of the colors, flashing, then revolving the press back to the red so that it would be printed last. Totally fixed the issue.

The only thing that makes sense in my head is this: When another color is printed after the red, the activator in that other ink is passing through the emulsion somehow and over activating the red ink, causing a bunch of the red pigment to get eaten up. I've thought about this for months and it's the only thing that I can come up with.

Does anyone else have this issue or know any way to solve this problem?

[Pangea]

Just printed a red and white print where I printed red first, flashed it then printed white. Seemed to come out ok and the customer was happy but then again they were looking for a mid-deep red.

[Cole]

Just printed a red and white print where I printed red first, flashed it then printed white. Seemed to come out ok and the customer was happy but then again they were looking for a mid-deep red.

See, that's the only way I can get it to pop. I have to flash it or print it last. I feel like I shouldn't have to flash discharge inks at all. Or at least I don't want to due to the fact that formaldehyde will get released into the air upon flashing and I don't have the proper exhaust system in place to get it out of the shop.

[ericheartsu]

you can also play with your mesh counts, we have run different types of discharge up to 305 mesh. Using Matsui High Mesh discharge, you can go higher. The ink is wayyyyyy thinner though.

We flash our DC all the time. just low flashes, nothing crazy.

Are you printing on a black tee? Does the art dictate that you need a black print?

[Pangea]

What Eric said, real quick flash not even enough for it to activate.

[RICK STEFANICK]

I like Sericol texcharge for reds.

[brandon]

Ever adjust your red pigment load? You can and make sure you use a fixer and cure at full time and temp

[Cole]

you can also play with your mesh counts, we have run different types of discharge up to 305 mesh. Using Matsui High Mesh discharge, you can go higher. The ink is wayyyyyy thinner though.

We flash our DC all the time. just low flashes, nothing crazy.

Are you printing on a black tee? Does the art dictate that you need a black print?

Maybe I'll try doing a lower flash temp/time. Just enough to dry the ink. My only concern is that I don't want to release any formaldehyde into the air. Yes, the art needs black outline. It's going on a forest green shirt. For this particular design, I had to run the press in revolver mode since I only have 6 heads. Didn't have the option to run a flash anywhere in the middle of the print sequence. I had to put a flash in the unload station.

I like Sericol texcharge for reds.

I've been using their red for a while now and it still gives me the same issue unfortunately. Still a better red than others that I've tried. Definitely my go to for one or two color discharge jobs.

Ever adjust your red pigment load? You can and make sure you use a fixer and cure at full time and temp

I never mess with the pigment load because I'm using RFU reds and I'm unsure of how much more pigment the ink can take. I just started using Matsui Fixer-N in all of my inks and it has helped considerably, but doesn't solve the issue of the muted red.

[lancasterprinthouse]

I would run that tan, blue, yellow, red, flash, white, flash (if possible), black. Hot pallets also help with wet on wet. I try to get them to 140+ but some manufacturers have told me 180. Hard to get that hot in a solo operator setup though unless you have a bigger press with multiple flashes.


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[ericheartsu]

I would run that tan, blue, yellow, red, flash, white, flash (if possible), black. Hot pallets also help with wet on wet. I try to get them to 140+ but some manufacturers have told me 180. Hard to get that hot in a solo operator setup though unless you have a bigger press with multiple flashes.


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you guys are both crazy. the white should be last, as the black can EASILY get stepped on.

[Maff]

Yeah we prefer to put white last. We will throw a flash in quick wherever possible and prioritize which colors we dont want stepped on for that same opacity reason.

 We set it it up like plastisol wow, smaller areas and darker first, then more open areas and brighter colors at end or before flash.

 Also on longer runs flashing helps us avoid build up on the back of screens and sometimes that gets a little messy.

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[lancasterprinthouse]

I would run that tan, blue, yellow, red, flash, white, flash (if possible), black. Hot pallets also help with wet on wet. I try to get them to 140+ but some manufacturers have told me 180. Hard to get that hot in a solo operator setup though unless you have a bigger press with multiple flashes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you guys are both crazy. the white should be last, as the black can EASILY get stepped on.

Crazy can’t see crazy. You’re right though, white should have been last on that order. Making dinner, drinking beers, not thinking enough. Either way the simple solution to the problem is a quick flash and hot pallets.


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[Cole]

Yeah we prefer to put white last. We will throw a flash in quick wherever possible and prioritize which colors we dont want stepped on for that same opacity reason.

 We set it it up like plastisol wow, smaller areas and darker first, then more open areas and brighter colors at end or before flash.

 Also on longer runs flashing helps us avoid build up on the back of screens and sometimes that gets a little messy.

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This is pretty much how I set it all up as well. Even with this technique implemented, reds still need to go right before a flash or last in the sequence.

Everyone has given great advice and input, but no one has admitted that they have this same issue. Does anyone else experience this phenomenon with red discharge or is it just me?

[lancasterprinthouse]

Yeah we prefer to put white last. We will throw a flash in quick wherever possible and prioritize which colors we dont want stepped on for that same opacity reason.

 We set it it up like plastisol wow, smaller areas and darker first, then more open areas and brighter colors at end or before flash.

 Also on longer runs flashing helps us avoid build up on the back of screens and sometimes that gets a little messy.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

This is pretty much how I set it all up as well. Even with this technique implemented, reds still need to go right before a flash or last in the sequence.

Everyone has given great advice and input, but no one has admitted that they have this same issue. Does anyone else experience this phenomenon with red discharge or is it just me?

If we don’t flash the red we do see some decrease in the vibrancy, yes. We always flash after bright colors though.


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[Maff]

Yeah we prefer to put white last. We will throw a flash in quick wherever possible and prioritize which colors we dont want stepped on for that same opacity reason.

 We set it it up like plastisol wow, smaller areas and darker first, then more open areas and brighter colors at end or before flash.

 Also on longer runs flashing helps us avoid build up on the back of screens and sometimes that gets a little messy.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

This is pretty much how I set it all up as well. Even with this technique implemented, reds still need to go right before a flash or last in the sequence.

Everyone has given great advice and input, but no one has admitted that they have this same issue. Does anyone else experience this phenomenon with red discharge or is it just me?

Yeah a nice red discharge is a delicate color to begin with, even printing it alone, so we try not to ever step on it when its printed with other colors or you risk the vibrancy.  Same thing with yellow discharge and other colors we want to be bright, try not to step on them wet.

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