What we are getting for Christmas

[pwalsh]

"If I am not mistaken, wasn't Jon behind constantly crap talking M&R on Instagram for a period of time? Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure it was him. He's always been cool to me so ill be cool to him".

Hey Brandt, I have many friends at Big Blue, I think you may be mistaken. Peter Walsh VP will verify my long standing friendship with M&R. Both companies have a great mutual respect.

I've always find it a little disappointing when a thread takes a turn towards the negative and/or it becomes personally focused on an individual.  With that said the cause of the misdirection is more often not anyone's bad intent, but rather the loyalty that they have for the companies and brands that they've chosen to work with.   For example, there are people on this Forum who will tell you that one brand of equipment, inks, or screen chemistry is the best on the planet, while other people will post that they are absolute crap.  How can the same equipment or supplies be so great for one person and yet so bad for someone else?

For what it's worth Jon Potter is a personal friend and someone who I admire greatly for what he and his company have done to build the garment decorating industry in the United Kingdom, working with brands that include MHM, Tesoma, Brother, Vastex, Sericol and others.  For all the success that Jon has had working with these brands I'm convinced that he could have had similar or greater success working with M&R.  On a positive note it looks like this thread has pulled Jon out of the shadows and I hope he becomes a regular contributor to the TSB forums.

[1964GN]

Tim Forman was slinging some crap just before we bought our first ROQ 5 years ago. It was so bad that we immediately walked over to the Ryonet booth and purchased the ROQ. It was that bad.

[MHMJP]

Jon probably wanted to have an adult conversation with you but based on what I have seen here, and on facebook, that's not likely to ever happen.

Agreed, he’s been pretty childish so far.

My email is open and still waiting for a reply from MHM.

Here is my last email to MHM that went has no reply since Nov 18. Right around the same day I got a message from Jon on Facebook.

“Thanks.

I have seen lots of claims that there are shops doing these huge changeovers every day, all day. So I imagined someone would be able to hold up a phone for the five minutes and show it in action. I hope you can understand that some skepticism has to go along with any claim. It should only take 5-10 minutes in a working shop to show how changeovers look in the real world.

I have seen ROQ shops switching over to MHM recently. One of the biggest red flags for us about M&R was how many shops were switching over to ROQ instead of staying with M&R. So seeing shops switch to MHM brings up the same curiousity.



So when considering our new press I am heavily considering MHM.



I appreciate you taking the time to look into this. I see Jon Potter making claims that they are the fastest presses for changeovers, but when people ask him to prove it he gets pissed off and tells people to fly to England and see it themselves. If you can appreciate the efficiency of a fast changeover surely you can appreciate how ridiculously inefficient it is to suggest travelling overseas.



I saw someone tell Jon Potter they would pay $10,000 USD to anyone beating their changeover times on a ROQ. Jon told him he should keep his money and donate it to charity.



My thinking was this: why not hold a phone up for five minutes, win the bet, and donate the money to charity yourself?



I tried to ask Jon Potter this myself but he has blocked me on Facebook and requested I be removed from an industry group! So on a side note I'm hoping you have different sales people available then the ones I've been interacting with.



To clarify here I'm not looking for the record-breaker video here, just would love to see footage that's in a real shop, not a tradeshow floor. With real time, not edited down.


Talk soon! Thanks again,”

—-

How can I have a conversation when he’s got me blocked?

He unblocked me for a few minutes after i sent this message to say “LOL”. Not sure what’s adult about this.

Keeping in mind I really am the child here age wise...

Hi Cory

Unfortunately 1964GN is referring to yourself as being childish, not me.

You may not be aware (as you previously stated I was just a 'rep') that I am actually in charge of MHM's complete North American operation. I have been involved with MHM worldwide for almost 25 years, from design and development of the equipment to the appointment and training of dealers worldwide. My total involvement in the Textile Machinery industry began in 1988.

As you stated previously your little dispute started when you were extremely rude to me regarding a simple pair of squeegee cutters. As you stated in a previous post above, I posted a picture of these cutters and asked folks to message me if interested. You then posted a DEMAND that I just immediately tell the three people who replied where to buy them from rather than them message me. You were extremely rude. As you also pointed out, I was going to send these guys a free pair via UPS for a bit of fun. We do that kind of thing, it makes friends. When I called you out for being extremely rude you then embarked on your mission to troll every post that I made on Facebook ever since. As I told you at the time, we don't deal with people who are very rude and have no manners, and it's not my fault that you don't know how to cut squeegee rubber. Normally if you want help then normal people would be polite, especially to someone they don't know.

So again, you've never met me, you know nothing about me (clearly) and you've never spoken to me. But you're constantly spouting the outrageous bullshit above. Brett Iverson has already posted an unedited video of Pete Junior and myself setting up a job at Long Beach, yet you still keep asking to see a video. You also keep complaining that no one calls you and that by some coincidence communication has stopped. This was not a coincidence, I instructed my USA dealer not to deal with someone who is a known troll and is basically rude and simply trying to cause trouble. I informed them of your profile which makes obvious your behaviour and skill level.

Then yesterday you said that by some coincidence that communication had resumed and you had received a bunch of calls from MHM, yet you never picked up the phone to one of them. That was me calling you to offer an olive branch and see what I could do to assist you and end this tedious and boring game you are playing.

Danny Gruninger and I also spent a little time together at Long Beach discussing set-up systems. Danny and I get along just fine and I enjoyed speaking to someone who has a great mind. What you don't know is that we enjoy a bit of banter, poking fun at each other online, but its all done with friendliness in mind and we laugh about things quite often. We also make clear that no one is trying to offend the other, this is what grown ups do, especially two people who are both experts in the industry.

We give a damn about our customers, we are fortunate enough to be very successful in many countries around the world. We don't play games and we don't get involved with trolls. When you would like to discuss the presses properly and in a businesslike fashion then please feel free to contact me directly.

Until then, I would suggest you be careful making personal comments on a public forum which are clearly aimed at deformation of someones character, someone you've never even met or spoken to.

[Frog]

Well, I for one am glad that you found us Jon, though I wish it had been under other circumstances.
I will say that I have been gratified by the times that a public "calling out" has greased the wheels and settled a long simmering problem. On the other hand, we walk a fine line here trying to not let the place degrade into a battlefield. Messy squabbles elsewhere involving equipment manufacturers and sellers was one of the main reasons for the creation of The Shirt Board
So, bottom line, I think that we have now heard both sides of the story, and many here probably are a lot less interested than the two major players are.

So, let's see if we can now proceed in a less personal direction, and....play nice.

[GraphicDisorder]

So, let's see if we can now proceed in a less personal direction, and....play nice.

Come on dude I was about to send a link to RDUBYABEEE on this. Have a good old fashion Royal Rumble.

[rusty]

not to derail this interesting read but what is the purpose of the welded cups?

Is that specific to MHM presses? I remember being at a shop years ago that had those but I thought it was to do with table printing.

[CBCB]

Hi Cory

Unfortunately 1964GN is referring to yourself as being childish, not me.

You may not be aware (as you previously stated I was just a 'rep') that I am actually in charge of MHM's complete North American operation. I have been involved with MHM worldwide for almost 25 years, from design and development of the equipment to the appointment and training of dealers worldwide. My total involvement in the Textile Machinery industry began in 1988.

As you stated previously your little dispute started when you were extremely rude to me regarding a simple pair of squeegee cutters. As you stated in a previous post above, I posted a picture of these cutters and asked folks to message me if interested. You then posted a DEMAND that I just immediately tell the three people who replied where to buy them from rather than them message me. You were extremely rude. As you also pointed out, I was going to send these guys a free pair via UPS for a bit of fun. We do that kind of thing, it makes friends. When I called you out for being extremely rude you then embarked on your mission to troll every post that I made on Facebook ever since. As I told you at the time, we don't deal with people who are very rude and have no manners, and it's not my fault that you don't know how to cut squeegee rubber. Normally if you want help then normal people would be polite, especially to someone they don't know.

So again, you've never met me, you know nothing about me (clearly) and you've never spoken to me. But you're constantly spouting the outrageous bullshit above. Brett Iverson has already posted an unedited video of Pete Junior and myself setting up a job at Long Beach, yet you still keep asking to see a video. You also keep complaining that no one calls you and that by some coincidence communication has stopped. This was not a coincidence, I instructed my USA dealer not to deal with someone who is a known troll and is basically rude and simply trying to cause trouble. I informed them of your profile which makes obvious your behaviour and skill level.

Then yesterday you said that by some coincidence that communication had resumed and you had received a bunch of calls from MHM, yet you never picked up the phone to one of them. That was me calling you to offer an olive branch and see what I could do to assist you and end this tedious and boring game you are playing.

Danny Gruninger and I also spent a little time together at Long Beach discussing set-up systems. Danny and I get along just fine and I enjoyed speaking to someone who has a great mind. What you don't know is that we enjoy a bit of banter, poking fun at each other online, but its all done with friendliness in mind and we laugh about things quite often. We also make clear that no one is trying to offend the other, this is what grown ups do, especially two people who are both experts in the industry.

We give a damn about our customers, we are fortunate enough to be very successful in many countries around the world. We don't play games and we don't get involved with trolls. When you would like to discuss the presses properly and in a businesslike fashion then please feel free to contact me directly.

Until then, I would suggest you be careful making personal comments on a public forum which are clearly aimed at deformation of someones character, someone you've never even met or spoken to.

That was MY thread asking about the tool. I made the thread myself. You replied to several people saying to email you directly. I suggested you just post the info. I disagree that I was rude, it was an effort to save you time and help get your info out. And clearly I remember the situation better than you do if you think I jumped on your thread and was rude to you. It was you leaving unhelpful comments. It would have taken you less time to just say what you wanted to say than to leave separate comments and then have us reply to separate emails. That was my point but you missed it.

I've already reached out to someone else at MHM because I don't like your approach.

You're right, I didn't know you're in charge. Now it all makes sense why I never got the info promised from Steve. Did you tell him not to bother following up with me?

But you took time on the tradeshow flow to 'silence the doubters' or whatever comment you made. Why don't you just take a couple minutes and prove your claims already? You've spent way more time talking crap to me then it would take to show a changeover.

And Danny even bet you $10,000 on a public forum. And you took the pompous stance of telling him to donate it to charity. So again I'll ask you directly, why don't YOU donate it it to charity? You claim that I can fly to shops and see it for myself like you have. Why don't YOU hold your phone up for a couple minutes. Why don't YOU donate the $10k to charity when you win?

Instead you expect me to fly to England. True masters of efficiency.

No one here is feeding the trolls. If you post something that is blatantly wrong I'm going to correct it. If there's an elephant in the room like that MHM still has immature jerks working for them (my opinion) then I'm going to say it.

If this is a 'positive only' board then I missed the memo. Move this to the cage so that people don't have to be ambiguous when they call people childish or trolls.

[MHMJP]

not to derail this interesting read but what is the purpose of the welded cups?

Is that specific to MHM presses? I remember being at a shop years ago that had those but I thought it was to do with table printing.

Hi Rusty

They form part of the MHM Pin System. Each screen has four bushings (cups) which are screwed to the frame which then lock into the same position on the pre-registration unit/CTS and then on the press. The press them has a zero function on all the micros so that everything is dialled in. The screen becomes a cassette. Nowadays screen companies offer the cups already welded on in the correct position to save you the hassle.

[rusty]

not to derail this interesting read but what is the purpose of the welded cups?

Is that specific to MHM presses? I remember being at a shop years ago that had those but I thought it was to do with table printing.

Hi Rusty

They form part of the MHM Pin System. Each screen has four bushings (cups) which are screwed to the frame which then lock into the same position on the pre-registration unit/CTS and then on the press. The press them has a zero function on all the micros so that everything is dialled in. The screen becomes a cassette. Nowadays screen companies offer the cups already welded on in the correct position to save you the hassle.

Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.

[CBCB]

So, bottom line, I think that we have now heard both sides of the story, and many here probably are a lot less interested than the two major players are.

So, let's see if we can now proceed in a less personal direction, and....play nice.

It really rubs me the wrong way when people post things that are blatantly wrong.

Here's the thread that Jon said he made... and that I was rude on apparently. He commented to email him and I requested he just post the info for efficiency's sake.



I can't see his comments because he has blocked me.

If you want to see both sides of the story then tell Jon to unblock me so I can post my comments, or to post his example of me being rude himself.

I am constantly posting about my love for efficiency and reducing waste in our industry.

In my opinion I think our industry doesn't need someone who spreads misinformation and deny requests to back up claims.

I want faster setups. If the setups are faster then lets see. Someone has offered you 10k and it's literally his job to answer these questions.

But he spends his day trying to take the high road or paint me to be a jerk.

It's him who blocked me after pointing out how much more efficient it would be FOR HIM to just reply with the info in my thread. But here he is trying to paint a picture of me coming into his thread and being rude when it was the opposite.

Drives me nuts. Of course I'm going to reply to this thread. You're not feeding the trolls I'm just correcting the blatantly wrong FACTS that I see. I have never said ROQ was better, I had probably the worst install of all time and our setups are nowhere Danny's.

So when someone says we can get faster setups with less calibration then I definitely want to see that. That's not someone's opinion being presented it's being presented as a fact so I would like to see it verified. And it's way easier to verify and sell me a press than to spend all this time challenging me.

Hold the phone up.

[merchmonster]

How long before he requests I’m banned from this forum, too?



I am not a doubter. I just think it’d be easier to prove the claims than to call me a doubter or paint me green.

It only makes me wonder if something is being hidden when it’s so much easier to prove your claim than to run around discrediting me.

no clue, but posting a private message on this forum got you banned from the other one.

ps the logo at the top says no trolls. someone ban this troll.

have a nice day.

[twins]

We have been running MHM presses with a Exile Spyder DTS for 4-5 years.

Going from Film and Javelin presses to a DTS plus MHM's has been a unbelievable increase in efficiency. Our presses are about 3 times more productive now.

Our average order size is about 52 shirts, so changeover speed is huge for us.

I dont know alot about the roq presses, but from the outside looking in I think there are 2 differences - there are pins on the screens and the squeegees lift out. For us both those things are huge. We use mostly plastisol ink, so we leave our squeegees in and arrange our jobs in order of print color so we don't swap our squeegees all that often.

As far as changeover times it really depends on the job, but it ranges anywhere from 30 seconds to 15 minutes depending on the complexity of the job.

[CBCB]

How long before he requests I’m banned from this forum, too?



I am not a doubter. I just think it’d be easier to prove the claims than to call me a doubter or paint me green.

It only makes me wonder if something is being hidden when it’s so much easier to prove your claim than to run around discrediting me.

no clue, but posting a private message on this forum got you banned from the other one.

ps the logo at the top says no trolls. someone ban this troll.

have a nice day.

Bet you Jon took time out of his day to snitch on me here too.

No one knew who that message was from until you claimed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CBCB]

Our average order size is about 52 shirts, so changeover speed is huge for us.

I dont know alot about the roq presses, but from the outside looking in I think there are 2 differences - there are pins on the screens and the squeegees lift out. For us both those things are huge. We use mostly plastisol ink, so we leave our squeegees in and arrange our jobs in order of print color so we don't swap our squeegees all that often.

As far as changeover times it really depends on the job, but it ranges anywhere from 30 seconds to 15 minutes depending on the complexity of the job.

Exactly why I am so interested in these presses.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ebscreen]

I dont know alot about the roq presses, but from the outside looking in I think there are 2 differences - there are pins on the screens and the squeegees lift out. For us both those things are huge. We use mostly plastisol ink, so we leave our squeegees in and arrange our jobs in order of print color so we don't swap our squeegees all that often.

You can actually order the Roq's both ways, pins or not. Having owned MHM's and Roq's, I'm glad I didn't order ours with the pins.
Pin reg is a great step in the right direction but I still prefer 3 point. Takes things like mis-aligned/placed pins/wracked screens out of the
equation.

Also, with the way the heads lift, it's actually way easier on a Roq to swap screens and leave the squeegee than on an MHM.
We do that whenever possible as well, feels like cheating.

They're both great machines and more than capable of extremely fast setups/changeovers. The reality is that with few exceptions
most modern machines are. If you aren't getting the times you want, start with everything else before the machine. Those guys printing on
tables with pinned screens probably have the fastest changeovers haha.


For the drama seekers, if we really want to talk about hush hush conspiracy stuff that got swept under the rug, lets talk about M&R ovals.