INK MIXING SYSTEM

[Dottonedan]

We are trying to get a versatile ink mixing system.


I hear from some wilfelx users that Epic with equalizer is a versatile system.  From my artist/separator standpoint, I was not happy with the results of blending.  (pms matches was another issue), but I can deal with that well enough. What I didn't like is that they seemed weak and would not hold it's hue intensity. One thing I hated about our whites blending with these colors is that the whites would be cake dup by the color way too easily. 20% dots and below, would disappear. So if you wanted a pastel look, you had to beef it up much more than you really wanted, causing ague sing game. [size=78%]One color would overpower another to the point that the lighter color was gone without much of that darker color changing for it's original color after blending. It seems the window for blending was very tight.[/size]


I've used Rutland M3 and the blending is fantastic, yet doesn't hold up that well as a standalone spot color on a white base. Too translucent (IMO).
I'm very familiar with the old Union Max Opaque and adding 5,10,15% clear base for sim process belendabiglity. That worked well. But others say the Union has other better options.




Thoughts?

[jsheridan]

The Epic EQ system with Amazing base was always my favorite blending system. It's web based now and when a color was off, a quick phone call to steve in the lab and within hours he would update the issue, restart the ims software and the new formula was there.

[RICK STEFANICK]

The Epic EQ system with Amazing base was always my favorite blending system. It's web based now and when a color was off, a quick phone call to steve in the lab and within hours he would update the issue, restart the ims software and the new formula was there.

yes, The Equalizer system is excellent and has great opacity with amazing base. It also prints faster and sheers better than the M3 in my opinion. Dan, What white are you running? We get different results as far as physical appearance depending on the white base but true color with both. We run quick white or killer base whenever possible but Legacy also. Plus the system is Pantone approved also. Depending on your shop size EPIC RIO is another great printable ink but your cost will be higher. With Rio you can base it down to save costs on lights keeping true colors.

[kidink]

I'm also interested in an ink mixing system that can handle both spot color vector work as well as being able to blend wet-on-wet to handle sim process. I nearly bit the bullet and went for the Rutland M3 but have since been turned off it because, as Dan pointed out, it's inability to handle solid spot color vector work due to it's lack of opacity.

I then came to the conclusion that it would make more sense to start with a higher opacity system and base it back to make it more sim process friendly so I'd be interested to hear more about the Epic EQ system.

I was of the assumption that Epic EQ was a RFU color mixing system as opposed to base + concentrates/pigments? or can the RFU colors be mixed with the Amazing Base to make it more sim process friendly?

Amazing Base keeps being mentioned so I'm interested to know how people are utilising it.

[Colin]

Bottom line with ALL mixing system pantone matches when printing over a base white - you get to start your own personal formula book.

Dan:  I recognize what you are saying and the majority of shops than run a pigment/color concentrate system have to tweak any mix for accuracy and vibrancy when over printing other inks/base whites.

I ran the M3 for 5 years.  Not one of my inks was straight out of the book unless it was going on white fabric.  I was also able to get a sheet with the pigment loading per ink so I knew when I was pushing max pigment loading.

If you have a smart ink guy, or an ink guy who will listen to you about color, teach them how to adjust for color shift and create color accuracy without as much mudd in the color.  This holds true on M3, Equalizer, the PC system and all the others on the market.

my 2 cents.

[Nation03]

I've really enjoyed Union Unimatch. Inks are very nice and I'm getting solid matches. I have a new client that pretty much has Pantone mixes on every order so I'm mixing a lot of ink now and I had little to no experience doing this type of work but so far they've been fine with my color matches. My biggest issue is restocking the inks. My local Tubelite is the only place I can find that sells the system and they're almost always out of stock in 3-4 of the colors. They tell me 10 days to get them in and it ends up being 6 weeks. The only reason I'm looking to potentially switch is to go with a system that's easier to restock the colors.

[blue moon]

I've really enjoyed Union Unimatch. Inks are very nice and I'm getting solid matches. I have a new client that pretty much has Pantone mixes on every order so I'm mixing a lot of ink now and I had little to no experience doing this type of work but so far they've been fine with my color matches. My biggest issue is restocking the inks. My local Tubelite is the only place I can find that sells the system and they're almost always out of stock in 3-4 of the colors. They tell me 10 days to get them in and it ends up being 6 weeks. The only reason I'm looking to potentially switch is to go with a system that's easier to restock the colors.

another vote for Unimatch! I will clarify that I have not tried anything else, but are happy with it. No system is perfect and you'll have to figure out workarounds for the issues no matter what you chose.

I am also a firm believer in using the proper tool for the job. Starting with Maxo and having to modify is not it! Get some Maxo inks for high opacity, Ultrasoft for daily work and Unimatch for your blending. Low opacity inks like 4CP and sim will require a whiter underbase to be color correct. In our case, we know we have to double stroke the ubase or set up two screens if we want it to be correct. You should not use a hammer to drive the nails in with a handle, you could, but why would you? Same with mixing inks, use the proper ubase!

Nation,
One Stop in MI stocks Unimatch as does the NW Graphics. They might be too far away for NJ deliveries, MI should be 2 days. You can call Union and ask who stocks it close to you, they will know.

pierre

[Orion]

The most versatile system will be a Pigment Concentrate/Colorant system. Being able to use a variety of bases to create WOW, puff, low cure, or textured inks is very attractive.

With any RFU mixing system you may run into trouble with formulas that are heavy with fluorescent. We know that fluorescent inks are usually tacky and transparent. They do not play well when trying to print WOW.

[kidink]

Bottom line with ALL mixing system pantone matches when printing over a base white - you get to start your own personal formula book.

Dan:  I recognize what you are saying and the majority of shops than run a pigment/color concentrate system have to tweak any mix for accuracy and vibrancy when over printing other inks/base whites.

I ran the M3 for 5 years.  Not one of my inks was straight out of the book unless it was going on white fabric.  I was also able to get a sheet with the pigment loading per ink so I knew when I was pushing max pigment loading.

If you have a smart ink guy, or an ink guy who will listen to you about color, teach them how to adjust for color shift and create color accuracy without as much mudd in the color.  This holds true on M3, Equalizer, the PC system and all the others on the market.

my 2 cents.

Colin, can you elaborate?

[Nation03]

I've really enjoyed Union Unimatch. Inks are very nice and I'm getting solid matches. I have a new client that pretty much has Pantone mixes on every order so I'm mixing a lot of ink now and I had little to no experience doing this type of work but so far they've been fine with my color matches. My biggest issue is restocking the inks. My local Tubelite is the only place I can find that sells the system and they're almost always out of stock in 3-4 of the colors. They tell me 10 days to get them in and it ends up being 6 weeks. The only reason I'm looking to potentially switch is to go with a system that's easier to restock the colors.

another vote for Unimatch! I will clarify that I have not tried anything else, but are happy with it. No system is perfect and you'll have to figure out workarounds for the issues no matter what you chose.

I am also a firm believer in using the proper tool for the job. Starting with Maxo and having to modify is not it! Get some Maxo inks for high opacity, Ultrasoft for daily work and Unimatch for your blending. Low opacity inks like 4CP and sim will require a whiter underbase to be color correct. In our case, we know we have to double stroke the ubase or set up two screens if we want it to be correct. You should not use a hammer to drive the nails in with a handle, you could, but why would you? Same with mixing inks, use the proper ubase!

Nation,
One Stop in MI stocks Unimatch as does the NW Graphics. They might be too far away for NJ deliveries, MI should be 2 days. You can call Union and ask who stocks it close to you, they will know.

pierre

Hey Pierre, thanks that is good to know! I don't mind a longer ship if they have them more readily available. Tubelite is generally more sign focused so they don't keep to much screen printing stuff in stock. At least the one by me doesn't. I'll look into both those places.

[Admiral]

We have the Wilflex Equalizer system.  Easy to use, can't mess it up as easily as some other systems.

We changed from Amazing Base to Synergy Ink NexGen Base.  I think it works better, is easier to mix.  Don't have test under a loupe to compare the 2 though.

[Colin]

Bottom line with ALL mixing system pantone matches when printing over a base white - you get to start your own personal formula book.

Dan:  I recognize what you are saying and the majority of shops than run a pigment/color concentrate system have to tweak any mix for accuracy and vibrancy when over printing other inks/base whites.

I ran the M3 for 5 years.  Not one of my inks was straight out of the book unless it was going on white fabric.  I was also able to get a sheet with the pigment loading per ink so I knew when I was pushing max pigment loading.

If you have a smart ink guy, or an ink guy who will listen to you about color, teach them how to adjust for color shift and create color accuracy without as much mudd in the color.  This holds true on M3, Equalizer, the PC system and all the others on the market.

my 2 cents.

Colin, can you elaborate?

On what part?

[farmboygraphics]

Side Note:
How many bases do you keep on hand? I only use Amazing Base, if they want a light on dark I'm giving it an underbase. I can't imagine mixing a max ink for a job if I already have that same color mixed in a standard base.

[Zelko-4-EVA]

Side Note:
How many bases do you keep on hand? I only use Amazing Base, if they want a light on dark I'm giving it an underbase. I can't imagine mixing a max ink for a job if I already have that same color mixed in a standard base.

we are on the PC system here

in order of most used to least:

PF Mixing Base
Amazing Base
Performance Base
Nova Base
Particle Base
Halftone Base

[bimmridder]

Using Wilflex PC with Synergy Base