Anyone have this dump truck?

[Chadwick]

Exactly.
See, I posted that skeleton shirt awhile back as an admission, that, in my daily job,
I get called upon to rip people off, whether I do or not, is up to me.
Or whoever is telling me to.
But it's still up to me.

I did that one cause, well, the design made me laugh, and it was seriously old school printed ( well, not that old , but old enough I suppose, 80's garage-ish )

I just added a bit of my 'thing' while keeping it true as some sort of cheesy tribute to a funny shirt.

The dude didn't order a whole bunch, but he got a few over a couple orders.

Is it right?
Is it legal?

Not really.

Was it more work that it was worth?

Definitely.

The damnation depends on whether you're cool about it , or act like a douche.

[Chadwick]

Need a dump truck like this? Anyone got one?

The funniest thing here is this, and although I added to the confusion,
He actually asked if anyone had a make/model dump truck picture similar to his pic.
That was all.

See?

[Dottonedan]

And the douche can be either the one wanting you to do it...or the one who is being a stick in the mud about doing it. It all depending on how one looks at it.  I think it really is about money. People are rarely offended that the art got used without permission, they are offended that they didn't get a cut. In a perfect world, Artist can say they want control so that the art does not get abused. (e.g.) used in a negative way that the art was not intended. That does happen, but mostly it's about money.

If Bobby comes in to a shop and wants you to duplicate a tee he had done 3 years ago for his tire shop by a guy who did a hack job on printing and the art was simple and some generic clip art or even original art that is somewhat simple, then most people in there right mind won't care nor blow the whistle or go into an hour long discussion with the customer on why he can't do it.  There are many options to offer rather than duplicating that same art, but if the customer specifically wants THAT art, then you can still offer the previous printer some cash for the use of the art. Who wouldn't want that?  Wouldn't you like another printer to call you and offer you some money on the art you did on a job 3 years ago rather than to see that art o a new order one day and you got nothing for it? Thats how that should go down.

On occasions, I get asked to dupliacte tees.  Some are on my website. The Spiderman, T-rex Bates Motel, and most all Universal Studios stuff (except for the one coming through the fence. Thats our original art.  All that was done by another printer. IN this case, te printer went out of business and nobody thought to get the old films before they were destroyed so when it came time for reorders, all those jobs needed re-done but not art and no films. So I re-separated them from the tees. It was a task and fun. A challen to get it to be as close to the opriginal as can be. They were approved at the first sample for each one.

So re-producing art from tees can be done and can be necessary and legal.  Each case needs to consider all the details of the job before coming to a conclusion. In this guys case, Prosperiti-tees job looks to be hand done. Not normal clip art (but we don't know that) and it could be from someones clip art collection. Thats one reason to not have it re-produced exactly. The other reason, is that even if it was hand done and not clip art, it still does belong to the original creator (or the other print shop (if not one and the same).  So, to protect ourselves here on this forum, we have a policy to not permit nor promote that practice.

Imagine one of these members here that do the fancy high end car art. Those printers who are also artist that draw up the cars and then print them.  They do a job for someone and charge a simple $100.00-$200.00 for art (or not at all) to get the order. So the do the first order but the customer thinks the price is too high (cuz you got $100.00-$200.00 built into the price also). So, the customer gets a quote from XYZ printing and wow, they are $1.50 cheaper. So they go to them and they have no art charges. The customer provides them with the shirt to duplicate.  It's a small garage shop just starting out who doesn't know these things. So no art charge and no re-draw charge. He's happy, he got a new order. So one day, you, (the original artist) are walking down the street and you see what looks identical to your art but it's all hacked up. You neither got the re-order nor the compensation for that printer using your art and your art is hacked up.  Are you pissed?  What do you do in a case like this?  Is it just part of the business?  I think not. I think you would want to either educate that other printer by giving him a what fer, and/or have a talk to your customer about compensation.

I think we should have a industry customized cease and desist forum uploaded on here for just such an occasion for everyone to download that would cover most all bases in a professional manor (to use as a reference or inspiration point). We might look into something like that.  Frog? Pierre?


Oh and Chadwick,  We do'nt care about the small details of what he originally asked for,  I'm on a roll here.    LOL

[Chadwick]

 
Don't let me stop ya.
Carry on.

[Fresh Baked Printing]

I know I create art art that the customer could very well take to the next printer. For me it becomes a question of the "hassle factor". Do I really want to formally try and protect my Copyright each time another uses my art? No. I know I'm not going to get rich from my art and in the end I know that my art isn't where the money is. The money for me at least, is in pulling the squeeze for a happy customer.

All that being said, I get why this place doesn't want to get involved in the open swapping of possibly copyrighted images. However...how many of the linked YouTube videos here are technically copyrighted and aren't really supposed to be linked anywhere?

Isn't there some controversial legislation in progress right now that will make everybody a copyright criminal anyway?

[Screened Gear]

The real truth is there is no situation it would be legal for you to print that truck unless you do about a weeks worth of research to find the artist that drew it. Then you have to find the real truck that the artist was inspired by and somehow get the rights for that. Then you have the whole intellectual property of the truck, the truck manufaturer, the composition of the truck, photographer, the artist, the previous screen printer. Not to mention you have to get the right to place the design on the shirt the same way the previous screen printer did.

There is only one way to handle this and it is not going to really help you if things go to court. Have a contract for supplied art work. Have your customer sign it. Make sure it states something along the lines that they are supplying art work that they own of have permission for you to print. It should also say they take full responsibility and release you from any actions that may come from you printing their supplied art or art you recreated from their supplied stolen internet files off Google image search.

Make sure to have the "Contract" notarized. Then have everyone’s signatures examined by a signature expert. While you’re at it have the experts signature checked. You should also video and take pictures of all of this including the printing of the shirts. After the shirts are printed make sure to put a tracking device in the shirts so you can make sure they are being used the way they said they were going to use them. Take pictures and video. Then keep copies of everything on site and also in an offsite location just in case your building burns down.

Sorry I lost it there for a while. Copyright law is not simple. Just make a contract that they sign. It will not hold up in court but at least it shows that you tried.



(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and in no way should this post be taken as legal advice. I cannot be held responsible for any actions that you may take after reading this post)

[sportsshoppe]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
is what it is about bottom line!
no one want to be ripped off but who among us is innocent and can cast the first stone?
Is it right? NO
Have you done it ? be honest

[3Deep]

He who stands on the moral mountain my stand alone...I know I have to look up at times LOL, but I will not reproduce art that I know is being sold in the market ie chevy, harley, disney etc.

Darryl

[sportsshoppe]

He who stands on the moral mountain my stand alone...I know I have to look up at times LOL, but I will not reproduce art that I know is being sold in the market ie chevy, harley, disney etc.

Darryl

D I look up everyday.... and I also do not reproduce art to be sold in the market... but have I got ideas from other art and used the concept for my own designs ? Yes I have.

[ftembroidery]

I'm not an artist.  If you asked me to draw a stick figure, it'd look like an amoeba. 

I can see the difficulties in copyright law and application.  I wonder though...isn't there some kind of "arraingement" that singers & musicians have that makes it "legal" for them to perform other peoples songs in public?  How does THAT work?  Do all entertainers pay some kind of annual fee to "belong" to "said organization" and does the person that created the song/lyrics get some kind of payment from "said organization" when it's performed? 

There's got to be something that can be done to give artists what's due them and still allow people to work and produce a finished product LEGALLY (t-shirts with a super-dump on it). 

Otherwise copyright laws are only good if the owner has enough money to have a team of lawyers and people LOOKING for infringements nation wide.

[inkman996]

I have no qualms recreating someones business logo made from obvious clip art and text. If I get something that has obvious custom graphics that is a different story and always tell the customer to return to who ever created it the first time and see if you can get the art from them if not then you need to get permission to allow us to recreate it for your shirts. That situation is very rare and surprisingly people with custom graphics can always get their hands on the actual art.

[screenxpress]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
is what it is about bottom line!
no one want to be ripped off but who among us is innocent and can cast the first stone?
Is it right? NO
Have you done it ? be honest

Watch this past the advertisement...........

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/jesus-is-sinless.html

[Inkworks]

So if someone brought this shirt to you that they have already had printed and wanted you to print the same design would you turn the job down because someone did their art previously?

Gerry perhaps you have missed previous discussions on "who owns the art?"
When you do original art for a customer, you retain the rights unless a separate agreement is made. (Something that needs to be spelled out to a client as well)

We operate a little differently up here in the frozen North. If the customer paid anything specified as "art" or "film" then they own it and have a legal right to access it. In the case of a charge for "film" they can come in and get the film, take it anywhere else and have it used there. Of course in the case of "art" they usually end up with a low-res. .jpg thumbnail, and not the original vector or photoshop file.

[Dottonedan]

So if someone brought this shirt to you that they have already had printed and wanted you to print the same design would you turn the job down because someone did their art previously?

Gerry perhaps you have missed previous discussions on "who owns the art?"
When you do original art for a customer, you retain the rights unless a separate agreement is made. (Something that needs to be spelled out to a client as well)

We operate a little differently up here in the frozen North. If the customer paid anything specified as "art" or "film" then they own it and have a legal right to access it. In the case of a charge for "film" they can [/color]come in and get the film, take it anywhere else and have it used there. Of course in the case of "art" they usually end up with a low-res. .jpg thumbnail, and not the original vector or photoshop file.

I'm going to sound like a butt head. Maybe I am. I just in a rush and can't take time to spill this out prettier.

So far, until proven otherwise, I will remain thinking that Canada is at the leas "similar" to the way we do it and the way most others if not all do it "technically speaking".  I don't know what your laws are, but I can give you common sense and common sense says your statement is more of a "practice' than a law. Very similar to how it's often practiced here (for many new or inexperienced) shops or even those that it does not yet effect greatly.  Heck, some here in the US don't know the laws and make them up as they go. I suspect that your stance and understanding of your laws thus far, "don't really effect you greatly, thus not concerned and continue with your normal practice of giving the art and./or films away. Technically speaking, when they pay a screen charge, they would be able to get the screens also. Small shops don't care about copyrights.  I am assuming much here. I know. But the chances of me being right way heavily in my corner.

Before I even look into your laws and confirm one way or another, we see a discrepancy.  You say the law says that if one pays a fee specified as ART of FILMS, then they own it, yet if they come to get art, they "usually get a jpg thumbnail and NOT the original usable art?  That signifies two different results from a payment of ART or FILMS. Just pointing it out for clarification.

I don't mean to sound like I'm against "you" or what your saying, I'm more so looking for the most accurate answer to what was said and it don't smell right so far. LOL.  I hope your game to really looking into it. If I'm dead wrong, then I'll take my lumps honorably.

[ScreenFoo]

I would think this is a classic sore point for printers everywhere.  Here, and in most shops (I would hope,) when you pay for "art" or a "film", you are paying for the *preparation*.  You don't own the file on the computer.  You don't own the printed positive.  These are tools you're authorizing us to create by placing your order, so we can print your order.  Of course, you can get into contractual obligations that change this, just like nearly anything else.

Don't get me wrong-we've loaned films out with no charge when we were too busy to help a customer on a tight deadline, but if someone walked in and decided to be a jerk, yelling "I paid for this separation, now you have to give it to me!" no problems here telling them where to go.   

I have to admit, I'm interested if there is a legal difference on the topic-Canada does have some laws that are more pro-consumer than many laws here in the US.
Like back in the day when friends in high school would go to Manitoba and drink beer at 18--had to be 21 in the US.   Totally pro-consumer.