Exile Spyder II- screens not registering proper on press

[Rockers]

This is a showroom model we bought of Exile. Now from day one this printer did not produce one set of screens that was in registration on press. We are using the tri loc system on our M&R presses. Exile has sent us 3 different drums for the printer to see if it makes any difference but it does not. What I noticed is that the drum does not sit flush in the Spyder. The left side of the drum has 1mm gap at the back while the right side sit perfectly flush in the Spyder. Not sure though if that is causing the issue. Now in comparison screens we have made using our carrier sheets and Epson printed films are almost all the time in registration on press. Now at Exile no one seems to take this problem very serious,  they blame it either on tape on the screens or issues with the press. I think I have heard it all by now. Not sure what I can do to fix this.

[Maxie]

I would do a few things to try and find out what the problem is.
1 Make a large graphics image  of registration marks and print this a few times on the same screen to check if the Exile is printing in registration.
2 Print the same image a few times on one screen but take the screen out and put it back between printing.
3 Print the image, set it up and print it.     Clean the screen, set it up on another head and see if it's in register, do this on all the heads.
You need to eliminate possible problems.
I am getting a Douthitt unit this week, hopefully I won't have the same issues.

[blue moon]

I would do a few things to try and find out what the problem is.
1 Make a large graphics image  of registration marks and print this a few times on the same screen to check if the Exile is printing in registration.
2 Print the same image a few times on one screen but take the screen out and put it back between printing.
3 Print the image, set it up and print it.     Clean the screen, set it up on another head and see if it's in register, do this on all the heads.
You need to eliminate possible problems.
I am getting a Douthitt unit this week, hopefully I won't have the same issues.

this!

[ericheartsu]

We've found with our I-image alot of issues tend to be from how the screen is loaded:
1. into the unit for printing
2. into the triloc/PRU frame

We've also found screens with bad tension, tend to have issues.

[Colin]

Do what Maxie said to eliminate some variables.

Eric is right on the money about screen tension.  I fought this for too long until I got back in the habit of using my tension meter to record every frame.  Then I only used similar tension screens together.

I also have to mention - it could be the press....

Last shop I worked at - Iimage and triloc.  The Iimage had the green light sensor to make sure you are making correct contact before you can print the image on the screen.

I would then take a set of screens, lock it in on my 12 color sportsman - dead on.  Then lock it in on my 14 color sportsman EXG, stuff would be out of register.  No one could figure out why exactly.

I am not saying my issues will be yours - but I want you to know your variables.

[brandon]

Something I have noticed for us is if doing a batch of jobs and say one is a seven color front and an eight color back we do them all right then and there. Occasionally in the past if we did everything but maybe one or two screens on the front or back and we did them the next day it could be slightly off. Not all the time but sometimes. Now we just do everything same time or not at all.

[Dottonedan]

Not that his is your case, but a few months back, I had a printer contact me about registration issues on the I-Image. I don't even work there anymore, but I still get some emails. So We went through all of the variables. The owner was the screen room loader/operator, and was sure it was something the artist was doing. We went through about 3 rounds of emails and I kept going back to "It must be how you are loading them". That wasn't received as well. So I suggested they have someone else load the screens for an entire day to see what might come out of it.  I didn't hear back from them for a while and then they needed something else one day and I asked about the I-Image issues. "Oh, No more problems". So, they didn't tell me what it ended up being, but I have a guess. It's hard to recognize and accept that you might be creating your own problem. You may not see it how others do or someone on the outside looking in. Many of issues with DTS are self inflicted and you just can't see it.

On another occasion, one shop called me and needed to go through the purge process over the phone because their printer was clogged. Noz checks were horrible. This would indicate that yes, we ned to purge air out or flush the lines.

I went through the process to clean the heads using the standard methods in the manual and they were still horrible.  I'm on the phone, they are doing everything I say step by step. So. I'm now asking for step by step methods on what they are actually doing and getting pictures. They get to the point of turning the print valves to the open position, and HOLD IT!  It turns out, somehow, for some time now, someone got the idea to switch the valves and they were printing with that CLOSED. So about 10% ink was flowing only due to pressure...for however long. Turns out that the experienced operator quit several wks back and nobody knew how to run this machine. Somewhere along the way they thought they needed these valves in the opposite direction.
So several frustrating hours spent only to find out that they didn't look at or try to find a manual.

So again, none of this could be your situation, but know that it's easy to imagine you are doing everything correct and possibly not.

[Rockers]

 Mark Diehl @Douthitt Corporation offered to help us out and found as well already some issues that need to be addressed. Awesome considering he works as direct competition to Exile. I`m sure Maxie will be in good hands with the guys at Douthitt Corporation.

[inkman996]

Something I did after having our Iimage installed just to convince myself the Iimage has not quirks like being described here.

I made a file with a bulls eye at each corner of the printing area, I did 4 different sets each a different color and sent the separated file to the printer. Put a screen in and printed each one of those sets of bulls eyes to see how well each lines up on top of the previous set. Surprisingly they came out absolutely perfect in registration, I did it with four different files to rule out different file variable.

We also sanded down the corners of all our frames to allow metal on metal contact with the new Tri Loc system that uses and LED light to show full contact on all three points. This has helped a lot as well.

So anytime there is registration issues which is never much at all is attributed to the press or sloppy screens.

[Dottonedan]

Mark Diehl @Douthitt Corporation offered to help us out and found as well already some issues that need to be addressed. Awesome considering he works as direct competition to Exile. I`m sure Maxie will be in good hands with the guys at Douthitt Corporation.

That's stellar service!

[Dottonedan]

Something I did after having our Iimage installed just to convince myself the Iimage has not quirks like being described here.

I made a file with a bulls eye at each corner of the printing area, I did 4 different sets each a different color and sent the separated file to the printer. Put a screen in and printed each one of those sets of bulls eyes to see how well each lines up on top of the previous set. Surprisingly they came out absolutely perfect in registration, I did it with four different files to rule out different file variable.

We also sanded down the corners of all our frames to allow metal on metal contact with the new Tri Loc system that uses and LED light to show full contact on all three points. This has helped a lot as well.

So anytime there is registration issues which is never much at all is attributed to the press or sloppy screens.

Good testing.  Here is a tip less known about registration. Some art departments will send two separate files for one job. A base file and a colors file. Don't.1, there is just no need. There are several ways to set up art with just one file including the base.  #2, Two separate jobs, are treated as two separate sends. and two separate sends will not "always" line up perfectly. It can be a hair off in any direction. Not due to the machine and output, but due to math and processing. You would think that it would be identical, but it's not always. Similar to sending one eps file once, and it reads 754k.  Send that very same eps file and it can read 762k another time. Also similar to creating a 12" vector perfect circle and printing that out to film or on paper or DTS.  Measure that, and it's 12" wide x 12.015". It's math and the outcome often gets rounded off to the nearest depending on X and Y.

[GKitson]

GREAT THREAD

[inkman996]

Something I did after having our Iimage installed just to convince myself the Iimage has not quirks like being described here.

I made a file with a bulls eye at each corner of the printing area, I did 4 different sets each a different color and sent the separated file to the printer. Put a screen in and printed each one of those sets of bulls eyes to see how well each lines up on top of the previous set. Surprisingly they came out absolutely perfect in registration, I did it with four different files to rule out different file variable.

We also sanded down the corners of all our frames to allow metal on metal contact with the new Tri Loc system that uses and LED light to show full contact on all three points. This has helped a lot as well.

So anytime there is registration issues which is never much at all is attributed to the press or sloppy screens.

Good testing.  Here is a tip less known about registration. Some art departments will send two separate files for one job. A base file and a colors file. Don't.1, there is just no need. There are several ways to set up art with just one file including the base.  #2, Two separate jobs, are treated as two separate sends. and two separate sends will not "always" line up perfectly. It can be a hair off in any direction. Not due to the machine and output, but due to math and processing. You would think that it would be identical, but it's not always. Similar to sending one eps file once, and it reads 754k.  Send that very same eps file and it can read 762k another time. Also similar to creating a 12" vector perfect circle and printing that out to film or on paper or DTS.  Measure that, and it's 12" wide x 12.015". It's math and the outcome often gets rounded off to the nearest depending on X and Y.

You are probably correct on all that. I should clarify the way I send files, I am using the print to file function and sending .prn's. Then in the Image software I select each pantone to print.

[kirkwad]

Something I did after having our Iimage installed just to convince myself the Iimage has not quirks like being described here.

I made a file with a bulls eye at each corner of the printing area, I did 4 different sets each a different color and sent the separated file to the printer. Put a screen in and printed each one of those sets of bulls eyes to see how well each lines up on top of the previous set. Surprisingly they came out absolutely perfect in registration, I did it with four different files to rule out different file variable.

We also sanded down the corners of all our frames to allow metal on metal contact with the new Tri Loc system that uses and LED light to show full contact on all three points. This has helped a lot as well.

So anytime there is registration issues which is never much at all is attributed to the press or sloppy screens.

Good testing.  Here is a tip less known about registration. Some art departments will send two separate files for one job. A base file and a colors file. Don't.1, there is just no need. There are several ways to set up art with just one file including the base.  #2, Two separate jobs, are treated as two separate sends. and two separate sends will not "always" line up perfectly. It can be a hair off in any direction. Not due to the machine and output, but due to math and processing. You would think that it would be identical, but it's not always. Similar to sending one eps file once, and it reads 754k.  Send that very same eps file and it can read 762k another time. Also similar to creating a 12" vector perfect circle and printing that out to film or on paper or DTS.  Measure that, and it's 12" wide x 12.015". It's math and the outcome often gets rounded off to the nearest depending on X and Y.

Yes on this. Experienced this before. Put that Base on top & Overprint Fill that bad boy. Or vice-versa, whatever your preference.