Who has the best bang for the buck in autos?

[ZooCity]

For what it's worth, pin lock has swing away arms that tuck under the platen.  You could run the reg platen in production if you wanted. We don't for fear of damaging it, but it's possible.

[ebscreen]

MHMs and Newmans were made for eachother.

[Printficient]

How much more is the MHM compared to a RPM or M&R? I know Anatol can beat everybody in price but what are we talking for MHM 20K more? 30K more?

I dunno what it is today, but when I priced them a few years back (tire kicking).  MHM was a good 20k more.   

Ok I have to jump in here.  A loaded Sportsman was about $1500 less than a MHM e type.  Even if the cost is double for the MHM you make up the difference with time saved in set ups and pre press in about a year or so.  Cost of ownership and potential profit with more goods produced the MHM is unparalleled.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Did you mean 15K less or $1500? If an MHM is only $1500 more than M&R then M&R has some problems. Or I should say M&R needs to step up their game.

[alan802]

How much more is the MHM compared to a RPM or M&R? I know Anatol can beat everybody in price but what are we talking for MHM 20K more? 30K more?

 

I dunno what it is today, but when I priced them a few years back (tire kicking).  MHM was a good 20k more.   

Ok I have to jump in here.  A loaded Sportsman was about $1500 less than a MHM e type.  Even if the cost is double for the MHM you make up the difference with time saved in set ups and pre press in about a year or so.  Cost of ownership and potential profit with more goods produced the MHM is unparalleled.

Sonny, we've had this argument before and it's always the same.  Your scenario has and never will ever happen in any shop.  Hypothetical numbers are great selling points but being able to double your production with the right press and processes in place only matters if you could actually double your sales.  Doubling your production is easy on paper, but remember, you have to double your sales first.

On the issue of using a pallet jig or the entire regi system for a one color job, I hope nobody goes through that little bit of trouble of changing out the pallets when you could just put the table up and you have a center line on a pallet and it takes less than 4 seconds to register a one color job.  It's faster with the MHM setup, but only seconds on a one color job if you do it the easiest way on the non MHM press.

I do agree the MHM is very efficient and it's the best at registering multi colored jobs, no question.

[Screened Gear]

Brandt brings up a very good point. I dont know about MHM, RPM, or TAS' support systems. I know M&R, Anatol, and Workhorse all have more than enough people in the states to service the equipment although M&R probably has without a doubt the best service support.

Here's what I know about support in regards to MHM.

Hirsch, to get phone tech support you have to call in and leave your name in their queque.  Someone calls back normally within an hour.  Or I can call the lead machine tech directly.  Most of the time he'll answer but if he does not he calls back normally within a hour or so.  In the summer they are more busy and it can take longer to hear back.  I've never had a situation come up that caused me to lose time in production because no one got back to me, each and every time I've needed help, I got it.  I don't spend a lot of time with techs on the phone either, it's very infrequent and I think MHM should be credited for that.  Now that may not be what some here say or think, but that is honestly how it's gone down for us over the last 6 years.

Could I have a tech here tomorrow if needed?  Well I don't know, I have never asked.  In the 10 yrs I ran Javelins I never needed a tech to get here tomorrow.  I guess I'm not fearful of that because almost all problems can be easily fixed with a little phone support.  Now if I were fearful of turning a wrench or picking up a machine schematic, then it might be different. 

In regards to a press jig, here's my thought on time; one color job let's say since someone else brought it up previously.  On the MHM, you load the screen and you're ready to print.  If you have a pallet jig, you first remove a pallet, get the jig and fasten it, then move it to the head, table up, lock the screen.  Then you have to take off the jig and put the pallet back on.  Then you are ready to print.  What happens when a you have a bad screen?  MHM--take it out put another in place, print.  With a jig, in addition to the screen change, you take a pallet off again, put the jig on, move jig to head, table up, lock, remove jig, replace pallet.  In my mind the jig process takes at least a minute or 2, not merely seconds every time you use it.  Multipy that times thousands of changeovers in the lifespan of a machine, then you're talking real time.

My experience is the same as Squeegees. I have called maybe 3 or 4 times and I have not waited more than a half hour for a tech to call me back. The main tech guy is really good. The tech that I work with knows this press really well. He helped me over the phone in 10 mins and got me back up and running when the main computer would not come on. (another issue the previous owner messes up not MHMs fault.) I was back up and running and fixed the part in less than an hour.

I was told from a MHM tech that almost all the repairs and fixes on my MHM e-type I can do myself with a tech on the phone. I can also have parts over nighted from New York (I believe that’s right) Here is another reason to buy a bigger press than you need. If you have to you can Cannibalize your unused heads for parts or just have that head down until you can get the parts in at a slower less costly pace than over night. So it is not important to have a tech here tomorrow. I wouldn’t want to bring a tech in to fix my press unless I have too. Time is money but at some point the money spent is not worth the time. I would rather be down another day or even two then have a $2000 to $3000 Bill to over night parts and a tech to fix my press. I know for some big production shops that would make sense but for me I can just work the weekend to catch up.

[Screened Gear]

How much more is the MHM compared to a RPM or M&R? I know Anatol can beat everybody in price but what are we talking for MHM 20K more? 30K more?

 

I dunno what it is today, but when I priced them a few years back (tire kicking).  MHM was a good 20k more.   

Ok I have to jump in here.  A loaded Sportsman was about $1500 less than a MHM e type.  Even if the cost is double for the MHM you make up the difference with time saved in set ups and pre press in about a year or so.  Cost of ownership and potential profit with more goods produced the MHM is unparalleled.

Sonny, we've had this argument before and it's always the same.  Your scenario has and never will ever happen in any shop.  Hypothetical numbers are great selling points but being able to double your production with the right press and processes in place only matters if you could actually double your sales.  Doubling your production is easy on paper, but remember, you have to double your sales first.

On the issue of using a pallet jig or the entire regi system for a one color job, I hope nobody goes through that little bit of trouble of changing out the pallets when you could just put the table up and you have a center line on a pallet and it takes less than 4 seconds to register a one color job.  It's faster with the MHM setup, but only seconds on a one color job if you do it the easiest way on the non MHM press.

I do agree the MHM is very efficient and it's the best at registering multi colored jobs, no question.

Why are you even talking about how long it takes to register a one color job on a auto? One color jobs are not registered.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Alan, not to get in a big thing about whats going on with RPM and Mustang but do you know the differences between the 2 presses? I know they are manufactured by the same company.

[GraphicDisorder]

How much more is the MHM compared to a RPM or M&R? I know Anatol can beat everybody in price but what are we talking for MHM 20K more? 30K more?

I dunno what it is today, but when I priced them a few years back (tire kicking).  MHM was a good 20k more.   

Ok I have to jump in here.  A loaded Sportsman was about $1500 less than a MHM e type.  Even if the cost is double for the MHM you make up the difference with time saved in set ups and pre press in about a year or so.  Cost of ownership and potential profit with more goods produced the MHM is unparalleled.

Like I said (maybe you over looked what I said or how I said it).  But When I quoted it, it was a good 20k more.  This was back in 2008/09.  Maybe things are different now.  Also food for thought and ive seen a lot of this.  People comparing a price from one company to another company and having never contacted them just going by "what so and so said".  I had quotes in my hands from both at the time.  Today I have no idea what it is.  Which is why I clearly said "a few years back". 

I would say that MHM has the fastest set up sure.  But its not night and day like you make it.  I have set up 6 color jobs in as fast as I could move the table around the press.  Which is about as fast as I felt like walking.  Not sure it needs to be any faster than that. 

[GraphicDisorder]

Alan, not to get in a big thing about whats going on with RPM and horse but do you know the differences between the 2 presses? I know they are manufactured by the same company.

Bigger question should be which one will be left standing or will both.  Or can the company keep making it two different ways.  Or even more importantly, what if the company allowed the new label in as a last ditched effort to stay in business.  Important questions IMO.

[Printficient]

Did you mean 15K less or $1500? If an MHM is only $1500 more than M&R then M&R has some problems. Or I should say M&R needs to step up their game.

It was about $1500 plus or minus.  This was apples to apples.  M&R Retail pricing. 

[Prosperi-Tees]

Brandt,concerning the tri-loc are the costs of the carrier sheets a moot point. Are they 1 time use only or are they reusable a few times. Do they have partial and full sized sheets?

[GraphicDisorder]

Did you mean 15K less or $1500? If an MHM is only $1500 more than M&R then M&R has some problems. Or I should say M&R needs to step up their game.

It was about $1500 plus or minus.  This was apples to apples.  M&R Retail pricing.

Have you compared any actual quotes from each?  Recently? 

[GraphicDisorder]

Brandt,concerning the tri-loc are the costs of the carrier sheets a moot point. Are they 1 time use only or are they reusable a few times. Do they have partial and full sized sheets?

We got a ton of them when we bought ours, haven't bought any new ones, reuse them all the time.  Had our press 10 months now.

[Evo]

We got a ton of them when we bought ours, haven't bought any new ones, reuse them all the time.  Had our press 10 months now.

Have to say, one should be verrrry careful re-using the sheets. It's no problem if you take care when removing the sheet from the pin bars over and over. If you rush, you can tweak out the punched holes - sometimes in a way that is not immediately noticeable until you go to press. (in which case the whole point of the system is defeated....)

I've roached many sheets by yanking a freshly exposed screen out of the master frame and not realizing the film was stuck to the stencil. Twisted the carrier sheet into a warped mess.