Printing WET on WET with Auto

[#riseup]

Im sure this topic has been covered or talked about plenty. I just did my first wet on wet job with underbase with total of 7 colors on my auto and didn't go so well. I guys my question would be...Is there a color sequence that is best when printing with  underbase on and Auto when doing an underbase?

I had so many issues and I still have to reprint the messed up shirts, which is a pain cause its 7 color left chest and 7 color for the back. The colors for this job were

White, light grey, light blue, red, dark blue, dark grey and black. This is the way I set them up as well to print. The biggest issues was the blue sticking on the black screen which caused the blue to look like crap.

If anyone is willing to help out that would be awesome and I would be most grateful!

Thanks

[Frog]

Assuming plastisol, what type of ink specifically did you use?
And what mesh screens?
As for order, though there are always exceptions, I was always taught light to dark and small to big whenever possible or practical.

btw, pics can be a great aid.

[Colin]

To add to what Frog asked:

1) Press type  (we will want to know if you have air heads/servo/chopper type so we can better guide you)
2) Print order on the press including flash and cooldowns
3) Mesh counts for each color
4) Squeegee hardness/durometer used on each screen
5) How much pressure on each color/screen
6) How fast were the print strokes
7) Each specific ink used - what brand/name of white and colors (not all inks work well wet on wet - thats why we ask)
Pics of the final print

That will give us enough info to be more precise with our suggestions.

[Dottonedan]

As they mentioned, An image reference would benefit and contribute to direction of the feedback.
To me, this would happen if the blue (assuming dark blue) printing before the dark grey and black, would be due to a large area and a semi thick deposit.
What many forget or overlook when first starting wet on wet is the lay down.  When it's flashed, you print right over top of everything with little concern. When it's wet, (it's wet), so you can get pick up (if you don't know how to avoid that yet). You avoid that with several components. (The right mesh combo laying down the ink thinner, yet delivering the image and color amount needed, while monitoring stroke speed, off contact, mesh tension (that's a big one) and even squeegee duro. Typically you want to use a slightly harder duro and more of a vertical angle (so as to not put too much down).  All of this is controlling ink deposit. Balancing it out for just the right amount of deposit...with less pick up.

I'd look first at mesh tension (with consistent tension). Another common issue is that squeegee angle. People often use way too much angle.

The order is dictated by the way it was separated. Basic separations can fall under the general rule as Frog posted. Light to dark, small to large.The thing is tho, (it depends), so don't always think that you MUST have the sequence in light to dark.  Printing on some garments using some ink types work best with dark to light.  Still, I'd stick to the idea of putting the larger areas near the end (so they stand less of a chance of getting picked up). Black printing first for example, with a large solid area of coverage can be disastrous once stepped on 5-6 more times.

[CBCB]

I’m going through this now so I’ll ask; are your heads and platens level and plumb? How confident are you in that?

Apparently this is the start! You can take all the advice here but if your press is off then you’ll only be applying that advice to the one platen you set it up on and the rest will make you a crazy person.


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[numbercruncher]

Hey #riseup,
Save those last posts - they are jam-packed with succinct bits of information - hey I'm gone save them myself!

[Sbrem]

I started long enough ago that there was no flashing, all jobs were wet on wet. Frog's "small to large, light to dark" is a good rule of thumb, but some images make you change it around. Dan's post does a more thorough explanation. Sometimes the "rules" don't work, so we adjust, but they are a good starting point.

Steve

[tonypep]

And here again are the interdependent variables. All of the above are noteworthy and valid. However....think about ink rheology. Many yellow inks are long bodied. IE sticky. Many  like to use yellow first however this can cause trouble at times. Conversely most red shade plastisols (marine) are the opposite. Short bodied and transparent. When overprinted WOW they might lose their vibrance. This means extra attention to ink transfer and print sequence. Yes, there are additives and techniques to overcome any issues; just wanted to bring this stuff up. And the list goes on

[RICK STEFANICK]

Another basic is screen mesh. Standard mesh would be 160-200 for your base and 230-280's for the overprint colors. If there is black obviously your not under basing that so pick your mesh based on the detail..again 160- 230. If your new don't think a little lower mesh should be better on the colors that pick up. Its the exact opposite. low mesh will cause a mess with colors picking up causing mottling, colors smearing together. major build up and the list goes on. 

[bimmridder]

If you ever see Mind's Eye Graphics/Joe Clarke doing an ink transfer workshop...GO!!!! It's hard to imagine what we DON'T know.

[whitewater]

when I started it was def the mesh count for us.. now we went to higher mesh and much better results.

[CBCB]

If you ever see Mind's Eye Graphics/Joe Clarke doing an ink transfer workshop...GO!!!! It's hard to imagine what we DON'T know.

I have been studying everything available from Joe Clarke. Would appreciate anyone posting old articles if they have them!

I’ve learned a ton. All the variables add together and they’re either working towards your goal, or against it.


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