High detail screen making issues

[fleetee2]

hey guys, are the higher mesh counts limited to high detail designs? for example can a 280 do a design that is meant for 110 or 160 design? another way to ask the question would be can a design that can be successfully done on a 110 or 160 also successfully be done on 280 or even a 305? the reason why I am asking is because I am ordering a big bulk of screens, and now knowing that the lower mesh count can not only do half tones but also cant do detailed designs like i attached on the op, i much rather spend a couple extra dollars on the higher mesh counts if that means that the mesh counts can be more versatile and buy 200/230/280 mesh screens so that they can do both the very detailed designs AND the simple designs.

[stitches4815]

Just a note on exposure units.
In general, a fluorescent unit with a proper vacuum lid, will usually produce better detail than a single point light unit without.
It is the single most important component of an exposure unit doing high detail stuff.
I once saw the figures and the difference in pressure (which translates to contact) between vacuum and compression or weights was well over ten fold.

Maybe someone here can do the math comparing a vacuum lid's psi to fleetee's 30 lbs of water.

Now, fleetee, don't get me wrong, one can do a lot with a compression lid or even weights but...

My fears with using weights for compression is the possibility of breaking the glass.  I know a vacuum blanket is exerting pressure on the glass but it should be spread out equally, whereas the weights are concentrated in one spot.  Just my thoughts.

[Frog]

hey guys, are the higher mesh counts limited to high detail designs? for example can a 280 do a design that is meant for 110 or 160 design? another way to ask the question would be can a design that can be successfully done on a 110 or 160 also successfully be done on 280 or even a 305? the reason why I am asking is because I am ordering a big bulk of screens, and now knowing that the lower mesh count can not only do half tones but also cant do detailed designs like i attached on the op, i much rather spend a couple extra dollars on the higher mesh counts if that means that the mesh counts can be more versatile and buy 200/230/280 mesh screens so that they can do both the very detailed designs AND the simple designs.

Meant for a 110 or 160? What criteria established this? Especially, what designs (and ink combo) do you think are meant for your 110's?
I think that you almost need to order one or two each of the common meshes and see for yourself. See how much ink is deposited. See if all inks act the same.
See if fine detail that's reversed out fills in.
You need some hands-on experience because, as your current screen inventory shows, I think that you have relied and acted upon some questionable advice.

[Sbrem]

Your problem is that light is getting through the space between the screens emulsion and the film's emulsion.
You can not hold detail without good contact between the film and the screen emulsion.
Really high detail and/or fine line halftones requires a vacuum lid.
Pretty high detail, and some halftone requires at the least, a compression lid.
Clunky stuff, a little weight.


I posted a pic of how to build a compression lid a month or so back.

I forgot to mention that i am putting weight on it. a square foam that fits the size of the screen, a heavy box, and 3 gallons of water on top

For the kind of detailed design i am attempting to burn, would i need a lid and/or vacuum function? and/or a higher mesh count than 110 and 160?

You need a vacuum, or you're wasting a lot of time. Andy is right, you're undercutting the film, which makes the thin lines close up as they are actually being exposed instead of holding back light.  The film needs to be flush to the screen's emulsion, and flush to the glass. Compression could actually bow your glass causing the same issue, where a vacuum pulls it all together tightly...

Steve

[Frog]

how long do you guys dry your emulsion before burning a design on it? I made my own screen rack and have 2 fans on one side and 1 fan on the either. i know the emulsion gets dried in 2 hrs but im wondering if i can shorten that drying time

Buy or build a drying cabinet.
A search or a serious browse could even turn up some DIY plans.

[Fleetee]

I got my account back thanks to Frog thanks man

[Fleetee]

hey guys, are the higher mesh counts limited to high detail designs? for example can a 280 do a design that is meant for 110 or 160 design? another way to ask the question would be can a design that can be successfully done on a 110 or 160 also successfully be done on 280 or even a 305? the reason why I am asking is because I am ordering a big bulk of screens, and now knowing that the lower mesh count can not only do half tones but also cant do detailed designs like i attached on the op, i much rather spend a couple extra dollars on the higher mesh counts if that means that the mesh counts can be more versatile and buy 200/230/280 mesh screens so that they can do both the very detailed designs AND the simple designs.

Meant for a 110 or 160? What criteria established this? Especially, what designs (and ink combo) do you think are meant for your 110's?
I think that you almost need to order one or two each of the common mehes and see for yourself. See how much ink is deposited. See if all inks act the same.
See of fine detailed that's reversed out fills in.
You need some hands-on experience because, as your current screen inventory shows, I think that you have relied and acted upon some questionable advice.

Yea... now having do some hands on experience, I am learning that the mesh counts are a lot detailed, specific, and important that i thought/was told.

Does anyone have any good videos, articles, charts, etc that they know on the top of their head that they can share with me

[Frog]

Does anyone have any good videos, articles, charts, etc that they know on the top of their head that they can share with me

I believe that I once suggetsed visiting T-Biz.com https://t-biznetwork.com/
Scott has his book, videos, and new online Master classes, with a new one on Screen printing Shirts that may be helpful for you. Also Boot Camps for hands-on training.
Tons of resources on his site.

Go back to square one and learn it right!

[cbjamel]

how long do you guys dry your emulsion before burning a design on it? I made my own screen rack and have 2 fans on one side and 1 fan on the either. i know the emulsion gets dried in 2 hrs but im wondering if i can shorten that drying time

increase daytime. 6-8hrs in dark room with some heat.
Shane

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[Squeegie]

I would have put some of the money spent on screens towards a better exposure solution.
I have been in business since 1991, and have been running an auto for about 16 years.  I don't own 200 screens. I think I am at about 60 or so.

A couple of each of the most popular mesh counts to get you started for testing purposes would have been a great option for you.

I have an "experienced" florescent bulb, vacuum blanket, exposure unit that has been taking up space and collecting dust for about 15 years.  Would love it to go to a great home. I used to burn 305 screens for process prints at 55 LPI with it.


Bill

[Prince Art]

As a guy who used the compression/weight approach for too long in the beginning, I have to add my voice to what's been said: You need a vacuum lid. You will NOT be able to produce the same quality without it, no matter what you learn about choosing the right mesh count. At any count you choose, you will hold better detail & make better screens with the vacuum.

Consider taking Squeegie up on his offer!

[RICK STEFANICK]

There are several reasonably priced on the used market. In addition to this is excellent forum also check   digitsmith.com   and  mrprint.com   If i were you though being as green as you are I would post here for advice on your find before buying and sending someone your money.

[3Deep]

All the advice in the world won't beat good ole trial and error, but all this good advice will save you some money in the long run, then you can afford that trial and error time

[easyrider1340]

I just asked a question to someone else about vacuum vs weights on exposure unit. 

What does the data say?  Does data exist?   What is the pressure difference between vacuum exposure unit vs weight/foam unit?

Thanks


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[Frog]

I just asked a question to someone else about vacuum vs weights on exposure unit. 

What does the data say?  Does data exist?   What is the pressure difference between vacuum exposure unit vs weight/foam unit?

Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not even close!

From this article https://www.mrprint.com/blog/841-exposure-systems-finding-the-right-cure

A vacuum system with fifteen inches of mercury develops 3,775 lbs of pressure, holding the screen and film evenly together on a 23” x 31” screen! That kind of pressure is hard to match with plywood and weights!