short bodied white inks. looking for a suggestions. . .

[blue moon]

It looks like the formula for my favorite white has changed and it is no long and stringy unlike before. We are having issues with it and I am looking to switch. Tony suggested streetfighter white and I just ordered a gallon.

We all have different preferences, and everybody has their favorite white for one reason or another. What I am looking for in particular is a short bodied lo bleed ink. Preferably without bleach so I can use it on both the 100% and 50/50. The cost is not an issue as long as it is justified by performance. Actually, pretty sure that the low performance stuff is not of any interest no matter the price.

If you could also provide some info on how you print it so I test is with right settings (hi/lo stroke speed, pressure, hard/soft flood and so on). The ink we used with excellent success we were printing with pretty high stroke pressure, med-hard flood, squeegee laid down as far as it will go (about 30 deg angle) and about a medium stroke speed. THe ink we use now even though it has the same name has to stroke at half the speed and it will not shear no matter how hard we try.

The original also had a very small amount of puff in it and it was creating a matte finish that was very suitable for overprinting with colors (sim process).

So, what's out there? Any suggestions?

pierre

[alan802]

QCM 159.  As short bodied as I've ever used and will shear at a fairly fast print speed with less than 25 psi through a 150/48 mesh, hard flood.  I don't use it very much anymore simply because it is too short bodied and builds up on the squeegee and sides of the screens so bad, it makes a mess on longer runs.  It will eventually climb up to the squeegee and fb bars if you print long enough.  I'm liking rutland street fighter LB and snap is ok, but it also shortens up considerably the more you use it.  I don't like the street fighter 100% cotton version, just the low bleed.  White ink with any puff doesn't work for us.

[tonypep]

To all.....There are three versions of SF white
9746=poly
9072=cotton
9073=both
I use the 9073. Since my pricing is the same for all that made sense. In four months i haven't found anything it did not work on. I will be iinterested in hearing pierres observations on it.

[squeegee]

Int Coatings 7031 Ultra white is short bodied, soft and very opaque.  We run different pressures for different things, but it will print with very low pressure 1.5-2 bar in the right scenario.  It has moderate low bleed properties, I don't use it on bad 50/50 bleeders like red, maroon, sapphire but it's fine on black, navy, royal and others that don't bleed horribly.  Use it a lot for sim process UB's.

If you like a little puff, try Wilflex Buffalo, used that for probably 5 years, went to the IC to get away from the puff.  I'd say Buffalo is about the same as the 7031 on bleed resistance.

[3Deep]

Pierre, right now we are using White Brite HO LB from WM Plastics its very good ink so far, I use it for all my base white printing.  I use a beveled squeegie so my angle would be 0 with medium squeegie pressure speed hmmm I,m say medium fast if that makes sense.  Now if I,m using a standard squeegie 70 duro I,m at a angle of 10 with medium hard pressure about the same print speed.  You might want to give it a try unless you have already tried it out oh and I don't think theres any puff in it as it laids down pretty flat with a matte finish.

Darryl
 Hey 30 angle what duro squeegie you using for that angle?

[sportsshoppe]

1 Stroke hybrid here, short body, fastest flash I have ever used, lays flat, good for underbase... underside expensive I think about $72 gal.... They will send you a free sample just give them a call. And what I like if you do not like any of there stuff they will replace for FREE... or credit you.

[mk162]

This is why I don't work for an ink company.  I would name my white ink Supreme White and my black would be called Panther Black. 

[blue moon]

what is the problem with the puff? I have not had any issues with it and it just seems to make it easier to get a good opaque layer. (now, I am not talking about big thick puffed up print, it is probably 0.1% or 0.2% and it is almost impossible to tell that there is any in it).

DISCLAIMER: please excuse my ignorance, many here forget that I am still very new to this industry . . .

pierre

[ZooCity]

The QCM 159 I used to run was very short-bodied, just a bit too much so as Alan mentioned.  Ink was inconsistent from batch to batch however.  I'm not clear on whether or not Rutland has successfully produced any of the QCM inks after they acquired the company yet or not, heard through the grapevine they were having some issues with the formulas.  If they could re-create 159 and manufacture it consistently I'd check it out.  But it will likely drive any auto operator nuttier than squirrel poop trying to keep it off the squeegee and flood.

You can avoid excessive climbing on ink like this by pre-warming the ink (it really changes once warm to an easier flowing white) though and keeping it at temp by either swapping out the ink if the shop is cool for the warm stuff or adding more warm in or keeping the shop warm.  Still results in press stoppage though.  On the flip side, stopping and swapping some of the white out every so often can avoid the dilatent (shear thickening) tendencies of white inks. 

Wilflex Epic Quick White was a viable replacement for us.  Short enough but doesn't crawl all over the place.  Excellent bleed resistance considering how well it prints.  Excellent detail though not as tight as the 159 was.  A little less 'bright white' in perception than 159 as well but still a very nice white.  It's the only white ink in our shop, I don't like to mess with multiple varieties and will base the quick down with transparent bases by weight if I want to extend or modify at all.   

Post up about your trials Pierre, I'm interested to see what you choose and why.  I agree that hyper-minimal amounts of blowing agent in the ink are probably okay and help with getting a matte finish. 

[tancehughes]

I know I am biased here because I sell it, but Triangle Phoenix White is a very good ink that prints on 50/50's and 100% cotton. It is a little finicky with some earth tones, but other than that it works fine with 100% cotton. It's very creamy, low bleed, and it really is the one single product that Triangle is truly known for...

If you are printing it, I recommend a hard fill (flood stroke) and then a push stroke to shear the ink onto the top of the shirt. Doesn't take much pressure at all with the correct screen prep.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I know I am biased here because I sell it, but Triangle Phoenix White is a very good ink that prints on 50/50's and 100% cotton. It is a little finicky with some earth tones, but other than that it works fine with 100% cotton. It's very creamy, low bleed, and it really is the one single product that Triangle is truly known for...

If you are printing it, I recommend a hard fill (flood stroke) and then a push stroke to shear the ink onto the top of the shirt. Doesn't take much pressure at all with the correct screen prep.

Hey Tance,

I have a sample of Pheonix White in my shop and have not used it yet but when I opened it , it has sort of a blue green tint it seems very slight though, is this normal?

[blue moon]

I know I am biased here because I sell it, but Triangle Phoenix White is a very good ink that prints on 50/50's and 100% cotton. It is a little finicky with some earth tones, but other than that it works fine with 100% cotton. It's very creamy, low bleed, and it really is the one single product that Triangle is truly known for...

If you are printing it, I recommend a hard fill (flood stroke) and then a push stroke to shear the ink onto the top of the shirt. Doesn't take much pressure at all with the correct screen prep.

'interested. Can you get me a sample? I will gladly pay for it and if it works out would give you the business. We would have to make sure the shipping does not kill the deal though.

pierre

[Homer]

P -if you got to triangle's website, you can fill out a form and get a free sample. i have a gallon here as a sample I have yet to try. Last time I opened a gallon of Phoenix white it was so thick I couldn't mix it, that was a few years back.

http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/

I am a member of the "white of the month club". . I hate white inks, I never know what to buy. I am a different printer than you so my suggestions are irrelevant.

[squeegee]

what is the problem with the puff? I have not had any issues with it and it just seems to make it easier to get a good opaque layer. (now, I am not talking about big thick puffed up print, it is probably 0.1% or 0.2% and it is almost impossible to tell that there is any in it).

DISCLAIMER: please excuse my ignorance, many here forget that I am still very new to this industry . . .

pierre

I think it's a personal preference, I prefer the ink laydown flat and have as sharp an edge as possible, other than that I don't have a reason.  Buffalo is a very good white IMO, sounds like it might be good for you, it's definately not a high rise puff, just aids in opacity.

[Prosperi-Tees]

P -if you got to triangle's website, you can fill out a form and get a free sample. i have a gallon here as a sample I have yet to try. Last time I opened a gallon of Phoenix white it was so thick I couldn't mix it, that was a few years back.

http://triangleink.com/request-free-sample/

I am a member of the "white of the month club". . I hate white inks, I never know what to buy. I am a different printer than you so my suggestions are irrelevant.

lol they will probably have the most requests for a sample in one day than ever! But hey if it works good it will be worth it. I am gonna try mine in the next couple days