What would you do? Brand new equipment not working as advertised

[Rockers]

I`ll try to keep this as vague as possible as I don`t want to name the manufacturer or even what sort of equipment we are talking about.
Anyway, the equipment in question was bought back in November 2017 from a company in US.
Set up by their personal and was working fine for the first few weeks but then problems began to surface and no one could explain to us why they were happening. Apparently we are the only ones with these issues.We run the machinery according to specifications so there is really nothing at our end that would cause the problems. Manufacturer suspect something is wrong with the electronic parts and sends us a new piece of equipment. Straight out of the crate it does not work proper. Same issues. Now I reached a point where I do not have any trust in that item at all anylonger and would really like to get my money back. We are not talking here $2000 or so. It`s rather closer to $20,000.
Sitting now on two pieces of equipment that do not work as advertised I would really expect the manufacturer as well to offer a full refund and have it picked up here at their expense.

[Colin]

What are their written policies?

[LoneWolf2]

You didn't get one of those paper-weight lawson direct to screen units, did you?

[bryanprints]

If it’s not doing what it’s supposed to be doing and it’s not user error then I say go after em. I don’t think you’re messing up, but I assume that would be their next line of questioning. New press should be a new press no matter the brand.

[KevinD]

I know as a business you are only as good as your customer service.  I would keep going up the ladder of management until you get the response you need. Sales Manager, General Manager, President, Owner.

[mooseman]

I would send Nick and Rocco to negotiate on my behalf.
Short of that I might suggest you look into the rules and regulations associated with the Lemmon Law which applies to automobiles that work like the equipment you have. While not directly applicable the law will have language that protects consumers from a product that fails to perform as advertised or up to the expectations created by the manufacturer.

The other opportunity you have is the leverage of fact.
First I would  seek out as many owners of the same equipment as possible using social media and every other avanue you can think of.
Discover if this is an isolated case or there are similar circumstances with this equipment. There is strength in numbers especially if the numbers are pi$$ as much as you.
Next I would give the manufacturer a letter that advises them they have an open door opportunity to access your machine at your facility or theirs and correct it such that it reliably performs up to the expectations they created in the profile of the equipment.
If they refuse to take that opportunity I would suggest to them that you will be forced to seek tecnical and operational help through social media and industry savy resources .

The bottom line is the equipment you have may just quite simply be junk and no real fix is known or available.
If there were a known parts and labor fix the manufacturer  would be stupid not to have applied it to your situation.
mooseman

[Colin]

He's in Japan, so lemon laws may be quite different

I still say read up on what they have written about return/exchanges/refunds.  Then start raising hell since you have 40k worth of boat anchors right now.

[blue moon]

they sent a replacement unit all the way to Japan, so they must be willing to do something. They at least seem to be trying.
In the end, I would send the units back. My thinking is you bought the units that sell for half the price similar known and reasonably dependable pieces are going for, so some issues are to be expected. If they promised something it is not delivering, let them know it is not working and that you'll send them back. Before doing so, make sure the issue is not on your end. 'not saying it is, but it would be prudent to try to eliminate that possibility. Could it have something to do with the power? Is your frequency 50 or 60 Hz there? What is the unit designed for? Or could it be the voltage difference that's causing the issue? You are a little bit short compared to US and maybe the power supply is struggling to deliver the right amount of current or the difference in cycles is throwing some sort of timer out for a loop. . .

pierre

[ffokazak]

I dont think it is in bad taste to at least tell us what kind of equipment, and what the issues are... you may even find a solution.

We dont need to know the manufacturer, but perhaps what the machines are.. Im guessing CTS.

[Rockers]

I dont think it is in bad taste to at least tell us what kind of equipment, and what the issues are... you may even find a solution.

We dont need to know the manufacturer, but perhaps what the machines are.. Im guessing CTS.

Spot on. CTS

[Rockers]

they sent a replacement unit all the way to Japan, so they must be willing to do something. They at least seem to be trying.
In the end, I would send the units back. My thinking is you bought the units that sell for half the price similar known and reasonably dependable pieces are going for, so some issues are to be expected. If they promised something it is not delivering, let them know it is not working and that you'll send them back. Before doing so, make sure the issue is not on your end. 'not saying it is, but it would be prudent to try to eliminate that possibility. Could it have something to do with the power? Is your frequency 50 or 60 Hz there? What is the unit designed for? Or could it be the voltage difference that's causing the issue? You are a little bit short compared to US and maybe the power supply is struggling to deliver the right amount of current or the difference in cycles is throwing some sort of timer out for a loop. . .

pierre

The CTS in question adjust voltage accordingly to location. You can supply anything from 100V-200V according to their specs.
We had someone here to set it up for us and it seemed to  work fine. Unit is standing in an climate controlled room. Prints are looking like the files are 72 dpi. Jagged edges etc. Nozzle check is unreliable. Sometimes it looks like they are all firing but then once we print the screens they look terrible. Distance pf printhead to screens is kept at the recommended value. Now it was first assumed by the manufacturer that there is something wrong with electronic parts that make nozzles not fire correctly. But since both units were tested before shipping this seems to be out of question. Now my ideal scenario would be that they send service personal down here to take a look and once they confirm that the quality is poor they either fix it so the issue is gone for good or they offer a full refund and we are parting ways in an orderly fashion.  There is just nothing we could do differently operating the unit.

[BorisB]

they sent a replacement unit all the way to Japan, so they must be willing to do something. They at least seem to be trying.
In the end, I would send the units back. My thinking is you bought the units that sell for half the price similar known and reasonably dependable pieces are going for, so some issues are to be expected. If they promised something it is not delivering, let them know it is not working and that you'll send them back. Before doing so, make sure the issue is not on your end. 'not saying it is, but it would be prudent to try to eliminate that possibility. Could it have something to do with the power? Is your frequency 50 or 60 Hz there? What is the unit designed for? Or could it be the voltage difference that's causing the issue? You are a little bit short compared to US and maybe the power supply is struggling to deliver the right amount of current or the difference in cycles is throwing some sort of timer out for a loop. . .

pierre

The CTS in question adjust voltage accordingly to location. You can supply anything from 100V-200V according to their specs.
We had someone here to set it up for us and it seemed to  work fine. Unit is standing in an climate controlled room. Prints are looking like the files are 72 dpi. Jagged edges etc. Nozzle check is unreliable. Sometimes it looks like they are all firing but then once we print the screens they look terrible. Distance pf printhead to screens is kept at the recommended value. Now it was first assumed by the manufacturer that there is something wrong with electronic parts that make nozzles not fire correctly. But since both units were tested before shipping this seems to be out of question. Now my ideal scenario would be that they send service personal down here to take a look and once they confirm that the quality is poor they either fix it so the issue is gone for good or they offer a full refund and we are parting ways in an orderly fashion.  There is just nothing we could do differently operating the unit.

Did you try to contact fellow users on this or any other board? You might not be so only one with this issue. At least these was my experience, when dealing with you-are-only-one-having-this-issue type of problems.

[Rockers]

they sent a replacement unit all the way to Japan, so they must be willing to do something. They at least seem to be trying.
In the end, I would send the units back. My thinking is you bought the units that sell for half the price similar known and reasonably dependable pieces are going for, so some issues are to be expected. If they promised something it is not delivering, let them know it is not working and that you'll send them back. Before doing so, make sure the issue is not on your end. 'not saying it is, but it would be prudent to try to eliminate that possibility. Could it have something to do with the power? Is your frequency 50 or 60 Hz there? What is the unit designed for? Or could it be the voltage difference that's causing the issue? You are a little bit short compared to US and maybe the power supply is struggling to deliver the right amount of current or the difference in cycles is throwing some sort of timer out for a loop. . .

pierre

The CTS in question adjust voltage accordingly to location. You can supply anything from 100V-200V according to their specs.
We had someone here to set it up for us and it seemed to  work fine. Unit is standing in an climate controlled room. Prints are looking like the files are 72 dpi. Jagged edges etc. Nozzle check is unreliable. Sometimes it looks like they are all firing but then once we print the screens they look terrible. Distance pf printhead to screens is kept at the recommended value. Now it was first assumed by the manufacturer that there is something wrong with electronic parts that make nozzles not fire correctly. But since both units were tested before shipping this seems to be out of question. Now my ideal scenario would be that they send service personal down here to take a look and once they confirm that the quality is poor they either fix it so the issue is gone for good or they offer a full refund and we are parting ways in an orderly fashion.  There is just nothing we could do differently operating the unit.

Did you try to contact fellow users on this or any other board? You might not be so only one with this issue. At least these was my experience, when dealing with you-are-only-one-having-this-issue type of problems.

You are so right. Some other member of this forum has contacted me today. He has very similar issues. I will get in touch with some others soon. Their details were passed on to me by the manufacturer of the CTS as a reference before we decided to buy that printer.

[Rockers]

I`ll start a new post in which I`ll describe the shortcomings in more detail