Pain is love [video] print from photograph

[myseps]

This is from a few months back, I was really happy how this one came out.
The photograph artwork was lower resolution than what I usually work with.

Check out the video here: http://tinyurl.com/7rlk2f4

[Dottonedan]

Ink brand?

What mesh,

How many colors,

Line screen,

Dot shape,

Screen angle

Why do you prefer to do something a certain way.

These are the things they want to know for educational purposes. If these things aren't included, it just looks like free advertisement if all we do is post up pretty images of our work.  They want to know details.

[myseps]

Dan,

Like I said, I did this one a few months back, so I don't have all of that information readily available.  I just wanted to share some nice prints in the show your stuff section, and I'd be happy to answer any questions about the print that I can.

My examples won't include mesh/screen/ink/film information, because I only deal with the separation portion of the print.

I can however provide a number of colors.

7 Colors

1. base white
2. cool grey 6
3. blue 3145
4. orange 144
5. red 1797
6. yellow 108
7. top white

[Homer]

You said you don't deal with mesh counts -does that mean you sep it and let someone else decide what count is goes on? I thought the artist /sep guru dictated that important info...

I am freakin dying to have artwork that badass for you to sep...do you have any sample seps guys like me can download and try to print? that. . .would be awesome. . .well look at that, I have to click on your banner and look see.

[myseps]

You said you don't deal with mesh counts -does that mean you sep it and let someone else decide what count is goes on? I thought the artist /sep guru dictated that important info...

Dot shape, angle, screen mesh, and ink types I always leave up to the printer. I have never provided suggestions for those things.  The printers are the experts. They know what to.  Also, my colors and sequence are open for adjustment.  I always encourage the printer to change my colors to make the print look it's best.

[Darren D]

I'd just like to say that I have known Scott for upwards of 34 years (yea, he's my brother) and he is known as one of the top, if not the best separators in California. He actually turned me on to this forum.

Moving on...I have a question for DotoneDan. I'm wondering why it is necessary for one to post all details regarding the tee posted? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the "Show Off" forum. What's wrong with just showing off a cool tee that was executed well?

From what I see, Scott has contributed some cool and inspiring content and videos to this website and seems to answer any questions one would have. One shouldn't have divulge every detail of their techniques, because frankly, that may separate them from others. You label yourself as a consultant, and I wouldn't expect free consultations and tips from you.

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, and I think this is a good source for shops and apparel enthusiasts alike. I just feel that for a site titled "A friendly forum for screen printers, embroiders and artists", we shouldn't be as demanding on content one likes to share.

[Homer]

not speaking for Dan -but guys like me-  would love to know the details, that helps me out tremendously. I agree, don't give away your trade secrets, it just helps the little guy learn, and that's what this forum is about. . .and I do also agree -his work is fan-friggen-tastic. .I'm always blown away. . .

[ZooCity]

While you all may be exclusively art guys we're a bunch of art folks but also straight up printing nerds.  Most here are taking work from A-Z.  I like at least how many colors with generic color description.  Mesh counts and press parameters are always neato as well and there's precious little risk of giving away any big secrets due to the insane amount of variables in this process and each shop's unique mode of handling of them.  And I also like just seeing what ya got without notes all the same.

This effing gorgeous print is a good example of why the specs interest me- it gets extra props for running as an 8 color job, which really means 6 not counting the standard whites.  If you would've came at it with 14 colors or something I would have still enjoyed the finished print but been less impressed with the art and print skills, the execution of it all.  Most of us as owner/operators running smaller presses and working with a wide swath of different clients have the job of keeping color count down and getting quality product delivered in order to hit price points.  When I see Tony posting art that delivers a whole rainbow of colors in just 4-5 screens, that stuff is like awesome screen printing drugs or something, it makes me think and is highly entertaining. 

Welcome aboard to the both you and happy t-giving folks!

[Dottonedan]

I'd just like to say that I have known Scott for upwards of 34 years (yea, he's my brother) and he is known as one of the top, if not the best separators in California. He actually turned me on to this forum.

Moving on...I have a question for DotoneDan. I'm wondering why it is necessary for one to post all details regarding the tee posted? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the "Show Off" forum. What's wrong with just showing off a cool tee that was executed well?

From what I see, Scott has contributed some cool and inspiring content and videos to this website and seems to answer any questions one would have. One shouldn't have divulge every detail of their techniques, because frankly, that may separate them from others. You label yourself as a consultant, and I wouldn't expect free consultations and tips from you.

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, and I think this is a good source for shops and apparel enthusiasts alike. I just feel that for a site titled "A friendly forum for screen printers, embroiders and artists", we shouldn't be as demanding on content one likes to share.

I have a question for Dot-tone-Dan. I'm wondering why it is necessary for one to post all details regarding the tee posted?

I will address the real concerns at hand behind your first post on our forums.

First and foremost, when people see inspirational work. It's common (or has been over the last 10 years on various forums) that we also typically include the details. This is a forum to help others (as well as ourselves). You give a little, you receive a little. Maybe they can give some of those tid bits of information a try as well. As it relates to separation contributions, we have many big debates on what features/tools/halftone shapes/screen angles to use that all contribute to a great print.  This is not something new that "Dot-Tone" has come with with. It's just simple protocal when people post up something, they "usually' will include the details. It's not "required" by anyone.  It's not done every time by everyone. The heavy contributors that are really trying to help someone usually includes this much needed info. It's what makes these forums exciting. For example, a few days ago, someone posted up an event that happened in his shop. Many contributed to both positive and negative feedback and He was able to take much info away that helped his shop and situation.

Yes, this is sort of the Show off your stuff) section. What you are missing is that typically, 95% of the time, it's printers showing off what they've printed and they go on to tell about how it was done. People want to know....and most typically ask...How did you do that?  What press what it? How many colors, what inks did you use?  ...Do I really need to explain all this?

From what I see, Scott has contributed some cool and inspiring content and videos to this website

Now questions. His stuff is cool and inspiring. With that said, let me say, that for a business to post pictures of of his services and results is great. It's exciting to see awesome work. It's encouraged. His work is stellar and people want to know things. I know this for a fact, as I've been receiving these same questions for years.

With that, to have made 95% of your post to be only about your services and nice vids of them getting printed, is not all that we are looking for here....It's very interesting to a sep buyer...and That is what he's interested in right?  He wants work right?  But we are not JUST about getting work (here) in this forum. He will indeed.  I'd be lying if I said that his presence here is not in the slightest way threatening to my work load and who wants someone else selling apples in your own apple store (but it is what it is). I have to be a bigger person and allow that on my forum. It's what big people do.


With that said, I have to also say, that self promotion is not all we do here. If that were the case, All I would do is bombard (my) forum with my advertisements and promoting myself and in addition, I would have banned my competition from ever joining.  This forum is not just about promoting one persons services. It's way more than that. You may do so with limitations, (note that being able to promote one's service's freely in a reply or post injection is something that I pushed for personally). To do this blatantly, aggressively or to go over board with it or to become a nuisance is another thing. Note, that it does not have to be the forum members that are annoyed for action to be taken. It's been said before, that you don't come to someone elses house and take a squat on the living room floor. I am a believer in self promotion to a point. I had felt that it was too restricted on other forums. For example, if you got to some of the other forums, you can barley mention that you provide a service in a post where someone is asking about that service. They PUSH for that advertising sale. Now, we want to earn money from advertising as well, just like the next guy, but we are patient and we appreciate all forum content contributions. That is why we even offer up 1 free month for banner adds osrt of to say, try us out. Everyone here is a contributor to the betterment of the trade. You are NOT required to always contribute, but in tern, I think it's fair to say that you will not be able to continue to only take.

We do have a place to promote your services of the trade to our forum members (once) in one specific location for that, as well as banner advertisements.

For this forum, I have no issues with someone that is a competitor of any kind to promote themselves in a small way. Just don't do it aggressively and we are very lenient on those issues.  Pierre for example is a contract printer...and we have many contract printer members here. He does not even advertise here for his own business but that is a choice he has made thus far. He's open to do so at any time and nobody has any issues with it or would think otherwise. In a sense, they are competitors (but not directly in each others physical area nor does anyone search out your customers on the internet. Here, is a safe haven for printers to communicate with collaborate and help each other. It's really been the same for artist as well. Artist will show each other how they did something in a program and the same with printers.  A printer or a separator is sort of expected to be the same way. If not, it would be a surprise and many would be taken back by someones lack of enthusiasm for providing assistance (in ways that are not effecting the livelihood of your business). I say expected, but not required. Nobody here is required to help others out.

One shouldn't have divulge every detail of their techniques,

Well, you have about 360 printers here that talk about printing techniques every day. We have only a hand full of high end separators that talk about printing techniques. I thought your brother would have liked to oblige us all and join in the talk about those same questions that the 300 printers get asked.

because frankly, that may separate them from others.

No.  It doesn't really. The questions I asked and the answers to them (are the same old questions and answers). Now, don't get me wrong. I am all for keeping your special trade secrets to yourself to better line your pockets. Nobody needs to know "exactly" how to do it...unless some money is exchanged. Thats just business. Now, you can feel free to spill your guts...but in the end, you may be hurting your business if everyone all of a sudden could do it themselves. Who needs separators? Me. :0  No, these questions I asked are nothing more than the standard things that (if told), will not be releasing the family secrets.  We wont hear "AH HA!, Now that I've heard that Tony uses a 22.5 degree screen angle, I can do just as good of printing as he does". No, I don't think we will here that.

You label yourself as a consultant, and I wouldn't expect free consultations and tips from you.

I do not offer free consulting as if to travel and do it for free.  I do however, offer free advice via phone and email. Feel free to call, but I get the impression that you are already a pretty good printer and apparently, you are good brothers as well.

Given all of this of what our forums are about, for any one person to only post up stuff about their business of providing a service....with no substance...is a bit lacking. I have not addressed (either privately or publicly) any issues with (your brother) as of yet, since it has not reached a point where something had to be done, however, with this post, I would imagine that he now knows where we stand on these issues.

I love to see his work. He's very good. I could even believe that it's possible that he truly is one of the best in California or even the whole united states. I say (one of), since there is always someone better and if you are currently THE best now, tomorrow is another day. There is really not that many of us who can do what we do manually (without the aid of sep programs).

I'm sure that Scott has not ever intended any ill will or intended to be malicious in any way. Nobody actually thought this and nobody was actually going after or attacking his credibility. No body has ever claimed so. Nobody has ever PM'd us that they have issues with him only posting things that promote his business or service. even with that, I would expect Scott to be a great person and an upstanding forum citizen that just doesn't know his boundaries as of yet. In addition, we are still figuring out what we like and don't like. We are still very new forum owners and have not yet completed out position on every action that happens on a forum.

If someone were to continually only post something about them and their business most of the time, it sends concerning signals. It make us ask, "are we doing the right thing by allowing this to happen?" Doing so, is resembling free advertising of ones services (on a forum that charges for this) and is a disservice to ourselves if we are to claim any part of this as any sort of a business. Now, being that I'm both an owner of this forum and another high end separator, I think it's common sense to have one consider adding a bit more than just promoting one's self.

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers,

  Well, I don't know about that one. I was sort of ruffled by your slight accusations. I don't think that you mixed any words.

I just feel that for a site titled "A friendly forum for screen printers, embroiders and artists", we shouldn't be as demanding on content one likes to share.

  Well, because you state that I am going against our forums title, does not mean your statement is actually correct. We are indeed "A friendly forum for screen printers, embroiders and artists", as proof by many many many printers here.
While I am a very nice person, I am not interested in being walked on by accusations, but I do see your passion for standing up for your brother. (Mind you, I'm sure he's capable of handling his own forum conversations.

There,  I think that addresses what I think is your issues with my post. While I wish you luck and happiness and your brother all the prosperity he can muster, I do want you to understand that you're a little over board and out of line on your reaction. Maybe just miss understood.

Now, back to the print job. It really is an honest and typical questions. How did you do that? What are the specs?  It is typical, that a separation artist provides that info to the pre press area. It's been promoted that the concept of only the printer having that control is also a disservice. A common ideal situation is that all departments know or understand what is needed to make  a print work best and most often, the artist is known for providing that info to the printer. I do recognize that larger shops do have specific people to do specific jobs and each only focuses on those jobs. It's not a problem to not know that stuff. It was just a common question. These are the things that people here want to know. Had I not asked, others would eventually.

Darren,
Now that you have a better insight as to what I am about and what my post was about, I would appreciate you stopping by more often and lets hope that you stay a while.


Dot-Tone

[tpitman]

I think, in a nutshell, we're all technically competitors, but we're all friends. Some have the skills to replicate what you've displayed. Some don't, and are potential customers for you, Dan, and others as their client demands expand. Dan has lots of fans here, some with whom he has partnered to produce award-winning work. There are other artists here whose names are very well known in the screenprinting community, as well as technicians and manufacturers whose contributions are immeasurably appreciated in helping us grow. The overarching theme behind this forum is to foster a level of professionalism and support, and your participation is welcomed, but you shouldn't have any qualms about holding back details. No one here is losing any business due to the openness and generosity of those who have advanced beyond the skills of the least of us. JMHO.

[sweetts]

Well what the h*ll there goes the neighborhood.

[Denis Kolar]

I'm going to have to stand behind Dan on this one (WOW, I agree with you for once "Dane")
When I started in Screen Printing, the biggest help I got was a from screen printer from across the town, Blue Moon/Pierre.
He came to my place one evening and showed me how to expose, washout and such. I watched videos and read a lot about it, but to see that in person meant a lot more.
After few months, he was running behind with no one to help, I went there few times to help load and unload.
I think that is the purpose of this forum, to help, teach and learn. Maybe not in person, but every pointer is welcome.

Scott might not gain anything with posting the details, but the forum are for that, to help and learn. Pierre did not know what would happen when he helped me, I could have just said thanks and that could be all, instead when he needed help, I went and helped him. All of that, and we could say that we are direct competition because we are 30-40 miles apart in the same city (one on west and one on east side). He is contract and I'm small retail printer, maybe not a direct competition but there is a chance that we might loose a job or two to each other and not know about it. And of course, all my jobs that I can not handle, will go to him.

Yes, you might loose a bit, but also, you can gain a lot on forums like this.

[Darren D]

Look, I have no problem with sharing info. I understand angles and dots aren't "insider" information. Scott hasn't withheld anything that he had an answer for. My main qualm was the way Dan came out speaking for everyone as if to say we don't want to see your pretty pics and flashy videos unless you break it all down for us, when in fact, all I've seen from all other members is positive reactions. If people have questions, I'm sure Scotts glad to answer them. It just came off as kind of bitter.

No one here is losing any business due to the openness and generosity of those who have advanced beyond the skills of the least of us.

Tpitman, I agree, no one should be losing any business over anything shared here. No one should be threatened.

Dan you said

Yes, this is sort of the Show off your stuff) section. What you are missing is that typically, 95% of the time, it's printers showing off what they've printed and they go on to tell about how it was done. People want to know....and most typically ask...How did you do that?  What press what it? How many colors, what inks did you use?  ...Do I really need to explain all this?

You don't have to explain this. Just don't demand it. People can ask.

With that, to have made 95% of your post to be only about your services and nice vids of them getting printed, is not all that we are looking for here....It's very interesting to a sep buyer...and That is what he's interested in right?  He wants work right?  But we are not JUST about getting work (here) in this forum. He will indeed.  I'd be lying if I said that his presence here is not in the slightest way threatening to my work load and who wants someone else selling apples in your own apple store (but it is what it is). I have to be a bigger person and allow that on my forum. It's what big people do.

Now we're getting down to the bread and butter. Not what the forums are looking for or not what you're looking for? Separations are integral part of the print process and very relevant. Again, other members seem to get a kick out of the videos etc. except you. I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't post on (your) site, but I think as a screen print community stuff like that should be encouraged. It brings interaction and hands on communication to what can sometimes be a dull subject.

Nobody has ever PM'd us that they have issues with him only posting things that promote his business or service. even with that, I would expect Scott to be a great person and an upstanding forum citizen that just doesn't know his boundaries as of yet.

Exactly. He's not pounding on anyones door to give him work on his posts. He's a great guy with a passion for what he does. Aren't we all? So where's the abuse?

I thought your brother would have liked to oblige us all and join in the talk about those same questions that the 300 printers get asked.

Well said. Read this, then go back and read how you originally put it. A little tact goes a long way.

Dan, I'm sure you're a nice guy with a lot of talent. I'm not trying to make accusations about you. I'm also not here to just defend Scott all day, he's a big boy. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what this forum is all about. It sounds like maybe you're still figuring that out too. If you want artists and separators to join and be a part of the community but are going to give them grief for posting their work, you may have problems gaining members from that side of the industry, which would be a shame because you have something going here.

[Darren D]

Oh yea, and Happy Thanksgiving!

[Dottonedan]

Look, I have no problem with sharing info. I understand angles and dots aren't "insider" information. Scott hasn't withheld anything that he had an answer for.

I see that he hasn't (when asked)  so hey,. guess what,  I asked, but I guess you don't like how I asked.

 

My main qualm was the way Dan came out speaking for everyone

  Well, you apparently are speaking for someone. I guess you think it's ok when you're doing it. Must be ok for me also. For me, in general, yes, I was speaking for everyone. I often do speak in general for everyone as it pertains. I will continue to do so.  We all want to know details. Nothing wrong with that.

as if to say we don't want to see your pretty pics and flashy videos unless you break it all down for us,

Nobody ever said, "Don't want to see them unless"... (you seem to speak for me and your bother). How about more specifically, like this, "in addition to" your pretty pics and flashy videos, (because we do like to see those, me included).

when in fact, all I've seen from all other members is positive reactions.

  Yes,  I agree. That doesn't mean I can't address my own reactions (as they pertain to me and our forum).

If people have questions, I'm sure Scotts glad to answer them.

  Well,  we did ask and he was pretty willing to answer as much as he was able,  but apparently you do not like that I have an opinion on the manor of the content of his postings. I want him to continue to get work here, I want him to continue to be happy and have a home here, I want us to get along, and I want you to join in on that. Whilst doing so, please find some sort of balance between marketing/self promotion and being a real contributor, and no, posting up your service results is not really what we call contributions. (speaking for most all of us again). true, it's great stuff. True, he does offer up information of that things we asked him in the past. He's been nonthing buy a great person....you, on the other hand, have not been such a great person (considering these are your first few post).


 

It just came off as kind of bitter.

   Yes, I was something. Maybe, I am kind of bitter about it. After all, I sort fo feel as If I am being taken advantage of if all he were to do was to promote his services. I don't think bitter is the word, more like concerned on how this will fair out. Sort of like, well, I need to say something. Hey, how about, Lets not just post up pretty pictures and vids. Lets interact a bit.  Often, I say how I feel. It's not always pretty, it's not always appropriate, It's not ever so eloquently written like Frog might do, but I don't take away what was behind it. My intentions were for the community as well as myself. I am part of the collective. (At that time), I did not know that (on this job) he does not handle that kind of information in his routine. It was an assumption on my part that all great separators do make the recommendations on how it should print but I do realize that some company's operate differently.

No one here is losing any business due to the openness and generosity of those who have advanced beyond the skills of the least of us.

Tpitman, I agree, no one should be losing any business over anything shared here. No one should be threatened.  Well, if you are or were threaten'ed by my statements, and nothing changes, then you may either get more accustom to it, or maybe you should mosey on over to some site that has more cushion and a willingness to allow whatever everyone wants to do individually.  We have seen that before and we are not about letting anyone run off doing whatever.  I will say it again.  Post up pictures all day long, talk all the details about them all day long. You don't even need to include all of the print specs on every post you make. But hey, occasionally, jump in on a post that is not about his business needs. I did notice that he's made at least 3-4 replies on some other post, like saying hello to Candy and to tell someone what dot gain is. I never claimed 100% of his post were about him.  Just about 95%. It was a fresh experience to see him post just to say Welcome aboard Candy or to Tell Fluid that he likes his stuff (art).  I'm not claiming he's a bod guy. I might be off on the wrong track when posting to some other forum as well. Heck, if it were not for your psot, this more than liekly would not have been a "thing" with as much credit as it has been given.

Dan you said

Yes, this is sort of the Show off your stuff) section. What you are missing is that typically, 95% of the time, it's printers showing off what they've printed and they go on to tell about how it was done. People want to know....and most typically ask...How did you do that?  What press what it? How many colors, what inks did you use?  ...Do I really need to explain all this?

You don't have to explain this. Just don't demand it. People can ask.

  Hahaha.  Ok.  So, now I am demanding. Ok.  Where?  never mind. it's not in here. Face it, you don't want me to have a SAY on our forum.  HA. You want to do whatever YOU want without someone calling it out, or more specifically, you want your brother to do what he wants.

With that, to have made 95% of your post to be only about your services and nice vids of them getting printed, is not all that we are looking for here....It's very interesting to a sep buyer...and That is what he's interested in right?  He wants work right?  But we are not JUST about getting work (here) in this forum. He will indeed.  I'd be lying if I said that his presence here is not in the slightest way threatening to my work load and who wants someone else selling apples in your own apple store (but it is what it is). I have to be a bigger person and allow that on my forum. It's what big people do.

Now we're getting down to the bread and butter. Not what the forums are looking for or not what you're looking for?

Both.  It's not what our forums are looking for (speaking for the forums in general and it's not what I'm looking for). Not all will agree with me. Not all ever does. Someone will be on your side and say WTFudge?    Ok. I can handle someone not agreeing with me but you will hear my side.  I feel you want to turn this into a "fear of your brother stealing my work" thing. I happy that your brother has such a good supporting brother for him. He is good and you may be surprised at this, but so am I.  I can handle myself when it comes to high end sim process separations. But hey, customers will travel to get the best price all day long. It's business.  If so, If your brother is that great on price that he can take all my customers from little ole me, then so be it and I'll have to start something else.   That's all there is to that.

Separations are integral part of the print process and very relevant. Again, other members seem to get a kick out of the videos etc. except you.

  Oh no.  I love those vids. I like to see other shops. I'm always interested in seeing what others have. I'm not one to judge someones videos, but I think they are pretty cool. It's a BLING factor for any website and I would recommend that he keeps doing them.

I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't post on (your) site, but I think as a screen print community stuff like that should be encouraged. It brings interaction and hands on communication to what can sometimes be a dull subject.

  Sure can.  I agree.

Nobody has ever PM'd us that they have issues with him only posting things that promote his business or service. even with that, I would expect Scott to be a great person and an upstanding forum citizen that just doesn't know his boundaries as of yet.

Exactly. He's not pounding on anyone's door to give him work on his posts.

I think your missing the part that he's just not aware of his boundaries yet....but hey, lets address your quote, You say, he's not pounding on anyone's door. I say, well yes, he is. By the way of 95% of his post being all about him and his services.  Look,  I'm not against him promoting his services. We even gave him a free 1 month banner add.  (FREE). I'm just saying, add more of the "good food" that people can chew on. Be more pro active in terms of make a balance between promoting your services and assisting others. It's just good forum etiquette.

He's a great guy with a passion for what he does. Aren't we all? So where's the abuse?

  I believe you. I already like him. Anyone that can do good seps can't be all that bad. I'd like to think we can start over and he can have a new path here (knowing all he knows now) and you can be a contributor or a service provider here as well.

I thought your brother would have liked to oblige us all and join in the talk about those same questions that the 300 printers get asked.

Well said. Read this, then go back and read how you originally put it. A little tact goes a long way.

  My tact is just about right where I prefer it.  I didn't mix my feelings on it. I'm not that tactful and I'm ok with that. It's just how I am. Apparently, not everony has such issues with it or they just learn to get over it.

Dan, I'm sure you're a nice guy with a lot of talent. I'm not trying to make accusations about you.

  Yea,  I think you did.   But I'm ok on that. No harm.

I'm also not here to just defend Scott all day, he's a big boy. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what this forum is all about. It sounds like maybe you're still figuring that out too.

  We are. We are growing and I'm sure that this is not the only event where I will ruffle someones feathers. I will of course, listen to the other side if I want to be a decent human being.

If you want artists and separators to join and be a part of the community but are going to give them grief for posting their work, you may have problems gaining members from that side of the industry, which would be a shame because you have something going here.

  Thanks for that feedback.  We do want those types. At the same time, we will also not allow ourselves to be taken advantage of. That can happen easily. I'm not saying Scott did that on purpose. I really should have addressed that in a private email. I've done that before, "addressed issues in a private email" and have still received some negative results. All in all, I'd have loved to have been able to to discuss those issues in person or on the phone. Like I said, sometimes,, I just say what I say and thats that. I'm not good at it all the time.