Roq equipment/plastisol ink

[TL]

Hey All, I'm looking for some honest feedback from any printers that run Roq automatics and pretty much print only plastisol(if they even exist).   I'm looking for info like how does a white base coat lay down-does it lay down with 1 stroke or does it need a double stroke most of the time?  How does it handle low bleed polyester inks?  Or any other info that people want to share.
We just starting to consider adding a second automatic, we currently have an M&R Diamondback.  I know that these machines are not comparable, I am just trying to review all my options as our shop grows.
Thanks in advance for any help.   

[cleveprint]

we own two diamondbacks and I'm my opinion, the press has very little to do with how it lays down inks. more so quality of screens, inks and what garments you are printing on. i don't know everything about screen printing, but 9.9 times out of 10 if I'm having trouble with an ink laying down, its not the press' problem.

[3Deep]

Like Celeve I don't run a Roq, but your question really has nothing to do with the press, but more of what your setup is ie screen mesh count's, squeegee duro, speed of print, emulsion coverage etc.  IMHO the difference in auto press's is really the builder and bell's and whistles each have to help make your work flow easier and faster...oh and Service after the sell, laying down ink is up to you

[avogel]

We have had our Roq for about a year and half. Like the others have said, it has alot more to do with screens, emulsion, ink, etc. When those things are right we can single stroke everything with no problem. I love the press and would buy another one in a second. With that being said, if you already have a diamondback, I would look at a Sportsman or G3. Having multiple machines that are compatible with pallets, registration systems, and those things would be more important to me.

[alan802]

I think, no, I know there are differences with print heads and their designs that will affect how well they shear ink from the mesh.  What others have said is absolutely true, you can do things with your mesh counts, squeegee blades, etc that will help a weak print head design print tougher inks with less effort, but a bad design can, and will hinder your production at some point.  If you can limit those instances or are willing to put up with them then don't let it play a role in your decision.  We ran the RPM for 7 years and it's design is solid so we never had any issues with printing tough inks with one stroke.  Now with the G3, it's even stronger and I've printed white ink with 15-17 psi on many occasions and I know for a fact that not many autos can do that.  We can also print white ink at 40"/sec with one stroke (we use higher pressures when doing that) and I also know for a fact that not all autos can do that.  I haven't spent a lot of time in front of machines that use different print head designs than the traditional 4 chopper cylinder versions the RPM and M&R use.  I know quite a few guys that have, and a few of those guys I trust more than I trust myself, hence my strong opinions on the subject.  My opinion does have some conjecture, but very little.

[mk162]

I think this dates back a few years when they were at a show and double stroking the white base.  I can't place my finger on when or even if it was posted here, but I remember it was a big deal for some who like to bash any brand they didn't buy as proof they were junk.

[tonypep]

Platen deflection (or, more importantly lack thereof) is often an overlooked variable

[alan802]

I know if I were to simply say "Brand X has a weak print carriage design and you have to double stroke 50% more times than Brand Y" people would lose their minds.  But to say that some print heads are weaker than others is NOT CONJECTURE AT ALL.  But no manufacturer would ever build a machine that wasn't capable of printing the basic plastisol inks in at least 2 strokes so I think the bar is high enough.  I think if I were to walk into a shop with a different brand of machinery than what I run every day I could eventually find a way to print to my standards.  But I will say that there are guys in this industry that have forgotten more than I'll ever know that can't get some brands to print a white ink with one stroke to save their lives, so there is something to be said about it. 

Our shop is different, and if I had to double stroke everything that had a white underbase I'd lose my mind, but others don't care about the same things I care about and all of the other features of a press are more important than what I deem important.  And another thing that has come up since we bought our G3, on many occasions I've tried to double stroke an underbase to compare to a single, only to find that a single stroke provides the same, and at times more opacity than the double.  Don't ask me how that is possible, but I've seen enough times in 2017 to know it's real. And let's get something straight, there are very few humans on earth that would get on this forum after having paid over six figures for a press that would EVER bring to light a big negative aspect about the machine, so there's that to consider.  And I happen to think the issue in question here is a pretty big one so getting the absolute truth on this forum is probably not going to happen. Then there are guys that will lie to you about what they ate for breakfast so you can forget about getting an objective truth about expensive machinery from those guys.   

[Colin]

Platen deflection (or, more importantly lack thereof) is often an overlooked variable

I hate platen deflection with a burning passion.

I see this everyday with my 12 color (converted 10 color with shorter arms than a 12) Vs my 14 color.  I have to use 15-25 lbs more pressure on my 14 than my 12 to get the same ink clear.

I can also watch the pressure change/ink clear on looong print strokes... About 6 inches down the print the arm gets stiffer and everything clears better.

Major sore point....

[Nation03]

I honestly think any press should be able to clear white ink with one stroke. I'm using an all air press with the old v-squeegee and I have yet to double stroke anything. 135 through 180 s-thread screens should clear easily. I use minimal off contact which helps as well.

I definitely have a less than perfect setup and I have no clue if my calibration ability is up to par, but for now it's working okay and good screens definitely help.

[GraphicDisorder]

We don't do a ton of double stroking, but the nice thing about the CH3D is the print heads are so fast that you can run them fast as you desire without slowing down the job.

[tonypep]

True.....especially if you're flashing on many newer presses a double stroke UB doesn't really slow the press. We do some UB/DC screens on 300+ meshes and thats where we would use a double. No bother there. True enough most of the older M&R presses exhibit deflection that can be unacceptable at  times. Originally they had a 4 point leveling system which was stronger but; largely due to incorrect re-leveling procedures, welds were being broken. Thus the change to the 3 point system. Always wondered why the the 2 points weren't towards the front instead of the rear.

[blue moon]

not sure if Alan's comments are directed at the ROQ presses, but for anybody wanting to know, I am aware of one individual's press that is having to reduce the speed substantially to get the ink coverage in one stroke. Not sure if that has been fixed by now or not, but it seems that one press is causing everybody to lump the rest with it.
So, for the record, we regularly print at close to 1,000 pcs per hour (speed) with white ink and are not having any clearing issues (on both the ECO and YOU). This is with rather large open areas. I've seen Danny do the same with great results. The pressures required for those results are similar to our MHM which has a four cylinder design. We are unable to do it at 15-20 PSI like Alan and 25 PSI is a stretch. For the most part when running at higher speeds we are above 40PSI. Joe Clarke was here few weeks ago and we set up a 9-zone test he has. I think we did OK before any tweaking, but after some adjustments, he said that was as good as he has ever seen (I think he said he has seen only one that was better).

I am not aware of any presses that can't clear white ink (good white ink , like Joe's) with one stroke, but I've only worked with MHM and ROQ so far.

pierre

[Colin]

After Pierre's post I feel like I should clarify, the higher the mesh count, the greater the discrepancy in pressure needed and stroke distance before pallet deflection becomes a non issue.

[DannyGruninger]

We single stroke all day every day here on our Roq. It is 100% FALSE that you must double stroke on a roq..... If anyone wants to see go to facebook and join the group " The Screen Printing Life" as I just posted a video of us single stroking. If you cant single stroke on ANY press then your doing something wrong pre press, bottom line. We can single stroke on any press out there, I promise that.