In desperate need of advice (white ink curing issue)

[jerryperrish]

I recently started trying out Wilflex white inks (Quick White/Amazing Bright) and am having a problem that is baffling me.  I just can't seem to find a consistent way to cure the ink.  I'm using a BBC Little buddy 240v dryer with heat controls.  This ink is very obvious when it's too hot.  It gets puffy and has that orange peel look.  But when I speed the belt a smidge or adjust the temp just a hair, the shirts will fail a stretch test.  (After a few hours.  It passes an immediate stretch)   I just don't understand why I can find a balance or consistency here.  My temp gun has the ink hitting 320 about half way in the oven and existing about 10 seconds later around 380.  I just don't see 380 not being hot enough to cure fully with a PFP on a 110 mesh.

ANY thoughts would be appreciated!!

Side note:  I questioned if the shirts were getting too hot during production while being flashed, but that wouldn't cause cracking right?

[screenxpress]

My initial thought is the ink may be printed on too heavy and your temp reading is showing only for the top coat where the entire layer down to the shirt is not fully cured. 

I do use a temp gun like you, but many here prefer the "donut" that gives a temp reading from the inside of the shirt under the print for testing.

Outside of that, I got nothing.

[Atownsend]

You might have to raise / lower the heating panel in addition to adjusting the heat control to find a happy medium. 380F is too hot, which can cause some of the issues you're describing. There should be an adjustment for the heating panel height inside the dryer, but I'm not too familiar with that model.

When you flash, you should try to gel the ink, 135-165F.

I would be a second vote for the donut probe and meter. The IR guns are not accurate. As soon as you can, think about finding a larger electric or gas dryers. The very short ones just do not give you much room for adjustment and are barely adequate (my opinion).

[jerryperrish]

Thanks for your suggestions, so far guys.

Unfortunately, this dryer model doesn't have the option to raise or lower the element.  I agree that 380 is too hot and I also would imagine you're correct that the whole ink layer isn't reaching temp.   But, if the top IS 380, you really think the bottom would be THAT must lower in a P/F/P on a 110 print? 

I also thought humidity could be an issue, but when printing on 100% cotton, I generally run the shirts under the flash dryer first to expel any moisture before printing.  Truthfully, I've never had a complaint and when I do wash tests, the ink isn't going anywhere (so far).  I'm just really in my head about this because of the stretch test.  How much should plastisol realistically stretch?  It's possible that I'm freaking out over nothing. 

Do you know an affordable donut probe/meter that I can get that would be still be accurate? 

[jerryperrish]

Also....

When you flash, you should try to gel the ink, 135-165F.

My flash is about 5 inches off the palette, yet will read about 300 within a couple seconds, yet the ink will still be wet to the touch.  This would lead me to believe that the temp gun is reading way too hot, BUT the orange peel look when the belt is too slow does indicate that the ink IS indeed too hot in that instance and the gun isn't all that off.

This whole thing is maddening.  Haha

[abchung]

When I think of ink curing, i think of my first steak I cooked when I was a kid.... Charcoal black on the outside and raw on the inside.

Try to lower your belt speed(allow time for the heat to penetrate to the lower layer) and lower your temperature (so top layer does not burn).

[3Deep]

My flash is about 5 inches off the palette,  that seems kind of high to me I run my flash on our manual about 3" from the pallet, then again what type of flash infrared or quartz.

[pcshone]

Hi All

Epic Quick White and ABW will cure at 300 - flash base white  until "touch" dry print 2nd white and fully cure. Always wait until shirt and ink is cool before doing the stretch test. A probe is a great investment, try your local distributor.  Your final cure temp as already suggested is "too hot"


For updates on Wilflex products always check the pib's at www.wilflex.com as cure temperature testing and validation is ongoing, the aim is to have lower cure temps

[lrsbranding]

I think that small electric dryers should be illegal because of all the heartache and pain that they cause.
I started with a Little Buddy and now have an Econo Red 1. They both need disclaimers that read "Do not use if you are suffering from bouts of depression or will likely suffer from depression. Using this dryer may cause lack of sleep and loss of appetite. Some have reported thoughts of suicide while most start drinking heavily."

I don't think there is a consistent cure while using one. Seems like everything changes the cure temp from a breeze in the shop to humidity and the demand on the electrical grid at that moment.
380 on an IR gun probably isn't that hot. The guns I used always ran a lot hotter than the donut probe.

The biggest problem I found to getting consistent cure results was setting the temp and belt speed to the rate at which you are printing the shirts. Especially with the Vastex, I have noticed that if the dryer sits with no shirts going thru for a couple of minutes the first ones that do are going to be way to hot. By the time you get the third or fourth the temp seems to level out. Not sure why. The chamber isn't that big or dampened to hold the heat. I think it's because the deck below the belt gets hot so the first shirts thru get baked from both sides.
I suggest that when you check the temp, feed 3 or 4 shirts thru one right after another and check the difference between the first shirt and the last.

[Stinkhorn Press]

I think that small electric dryers should be illegal because of all the heartache and pain that they cause.

this. i started to write something similar earlier and then deleted it as it wasn't really helpful.
but just be aware that getting a good ink cure in a small electric dryer is very very hard to do consistently and nigh-impossible to do WELL, no matter what you do.

more tunnel. gas.
if those aren't viable options, go slower for a longer dwell, if you maxed out the slowness, run the shirts through 2 or 3 times as needed.

[Frog]

Just to be clear, I ran, and made a good living, for years with a four foot Ranar Scamp that did not even have sides, merely a panel mounted above the belt. It did however, allow for adjustment up and down. And yes, I ran white, and ran it through 110's, p-f-p. Heck, many folks start out with only  a flash dryer!

That said, there were times, when to feel better, I'd run stuff through a second time Though plastisol cure is not really cumulative,  by positioning the garment slightly differently the second time, it assured more complete coverage with a relatively small panel.

As for temp guns, they are only good in a relative sense, since even when right on top of the target, they are only measuring the surface. On my ten footer, I get a reading spike of 370-400 just for an instant just before exit. I have kinda' learned how that relates to an actual 295-315 cure. Of course, different shirt fabric, color, and weight all play a part as well.

Just a few months back, we had a poll on temperature measuring techniques. http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,19498.msg184333.html#msg184333

Multiple washings, ideally 24 hours later, still represent the best test.

Another Little Buddy thread. http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,11332.msg107847.html#msg107847

[jerryperrish]

Multiple washings, ideally 24 hours later, still represent the best test.

Another Little Buddy thread. http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,11332.msg107847.html#msg107847

Just curious on why 24 hours?  Theoretically, if it takes that long for the ink to stabilize then is is possible that the ink is cracking a bit because I'm stretching it too soon?  (several hours later)  Should I wait a full 24, then attempt to stretch?  Am I grasping at straws here?

For the record, I haven't had any shirts wash out after multiple washes.  I'm just weirded out that there IS some cracking when stretched.   I ran shirts today wit the power around 60% and the belt at a snails pace.  and once again some shirts show signs of being too hot, while others not all the way cured.  I just don't understand how it can shift THAT much.

[Frog]

I can't give you any technical explanation, but am mostly relying on comments from Colin, a member here with background in the ink business at QCM.
here's an old thread that touched upon it. http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,5749.msg63852.html#msg63852

Also, perhaps you just stretched harder than even cured ink could handle.

[jerryperrish]

Also, perhaps you just stretched harder than even cured ink could handle.

I was actually hoping this was correct, but I took another print of mine and tried to get it to crack like Hulk Hogan ripping his T shirt.   Nothing...It stayed in tact.    It's just completely inconsistent.   

[Frog]

Well, let's think about inconsistency  then. Why might your temperature fluctuate? The most obvious reason is airflow.
Can something be changing to sometimes allow breezes to affect the dryer?
A window or door that is not always open?