In desperate need of advice (white ink curing issue)

[jerryperrish]

Unfortunately not.  I'm pretty anal about making sure there is no real air flow.   Honestly, the only thing that has really changed is the Wilflex ink.   I'm going to grab a quart of something else and see if the results vary.   That would be fairly heart breaking because I LOVE the opacity/mat down/feel of the quick white.   

[pcshone]

Unfortunately not.  I'm pretty anal about making sure there is no real air flow.   Honestly, the only thing that has really changed is the Wilflex ink.   I'm going to grab a quart of something else and see if the results vary.   That would be fairly heart breaking because I LOVE the opacity/mat down/feel of the quick white.

Are you getting similar results with the Amazing Bright White ?

Before switching ink ask your supplier for a sample of Epic Quick with a different batch # I would be surprised if there is an ink consistency issue on a shirt to shirt basis - but give the the above a go first.

Regards

Phil




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[pcshone]

Unfortunately not.  I'm pretty anal about making sure there is no real air flow.   Honestly, the only thing that has really changed is the Wilflex ink.   I'm going to grab a quart of something else and see if the results vary.   That would be fairly heart breaking because I LOVE the opacity/mat down/feel of the quick white.

Do you have a heat press?

If so - get one of the shirts on which the ink is cracking - press half of the image @ 190 Celsius for ten seconds - allow to cool and do the stretch test - if one half still cracks and the other doesn't, you definitely have a temperature fluctuation issue.

Good luck

Phil


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[lrsbranding]

Can't wait to see if this problem gets solved because getting consistent cure results has always been my main problem also.
Ink film thickness could be one issue. Are you printing each shirt with the same number of strokes? I would think that if you double hit some shirts and single hit others then flash and again double hit some and single hit others it would create different cure results.
Does the Little Buddy heater controls actually cycle the heater panel on and off to maintain a temperature or is it continuous on with lower wattage?

[jerryperrish]

Stand by...   I talked to reps from BBC and Polyone today.   I'lm going to do extensive tests tomorrow equipped with 4 different kinds of white, temp strips, temp guns, and a case of beer. 

[screenxpress]

What mesh on the beer?

[jerryperrish]

Ok.  So I made a ton of prints and notes today.  Tomorrow is going to be a laundry day. 

In all of your opinions...Do you think the print should look EXACTLY the same after washing, or would you say SOME change is standard (such as a slight decrease in opacity due to the fibers of the shirt)

Also, let's talk about signs of undercure....Besides the obvious washing out, or cracking ink, is there anything else to look out for?   What about overcure?  I've heard of ink getting chalky and flaking off,  anything besides that to keep an eye out for?



note*  All prints were on the same black 100% cotton shirts. 

[abchung]

When we test inks. We cut the image in half. One half for wash. The other for reference.

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[jerryperrish]

Sooooooo.......  Extensive testing really may have me even more confused then when I started.  It's WILD how a temp gun can be reading a surface jumping upwards of 400 while temp strips on top of the garment are just getting 290.   I experimented with so many variations.  I really thought that turning the temp way down and running the belt so slowly that the shirt was in the 2 foot tunnel for over a minute would be the key, but at the end of the day I still don't have an actual sense of how hot this ink layer is actually getting. 

Would a donut probe even work properly in a tunnel this small?

I feel like my takeaway from all this is to A.) Count my blessings that I've never had a complaint.  B.)  Continue business as usual, but really start putting away some money to get a bigger dryer that will help me sleep at night a little better.

On that note, Does anyone have some recommendations?  I don't have a TON of room, so I'm still looking to be on the smaller side within reason.  I know that BBC does make a version of this dryer with a 4 foot tunnel and Vastex has some newer dyers that are on the small side, but modular so you can add heat elements as you grow.  Any thoughts?

[Frog]

Sooooooo.......  Extensive testing really may have me even more confused then when I started.  It's WILD how a temp gun can be reading a surface jumping upwards of 400 while temp strips on top of the garment are just getting 290.   

You may have missed this post back in the poll and threads about different ways of measuring cure temperature. The temp strips require some special attention.

Voted donut but the strips, if they are accurate, are smart as you can "map" your cure on a specific garment if need be.

You may remember that back on the old board, I often recommended putting strips on the inside, to really know that the bottom of the ink deposit has reached temp.
btw, I cut them down the middle lengthways, and double my stash.

Putting it on the iniside is brilliant! If not and you use an electric dryer and a temp strip you will effectively
Measure the emissivity value of the temp strip!

[Doug S]

Sooooooo.......  Extensive testing really may have me even more confused then when I started.  It's WILD how a temp gun can be reading a surface jumping upwards of 400 while temp strips on top of the garment are just getting 290.   I experimented with so many variations.  I really thought that turning the temp way down and running the belt so slowly that the shirt was in the 2 foot tunnel for over a minute would be the key, but at the end of the day I still don't have an actual sense of how hot this ink layer is actually getting. 

Would a donut probe even work properly in a tunnel this small?

I feel like my takeaway from all this is to A.) Count my blessings that I've never had a complaint.  B.)  Continue business as usual, but really start putting away some money to get a bigger dryer that will help me sleep at night a little better.

On that note, Does anyone have some recommendations?  I don't have a TON of room, so I'm still looking to be on the smaller side within reason.  I know that BBC does make a version of this dryer with a 4 foot tunnel and Vastex has some newer dyers that are on the small side, but modular so you can add heat elements as you grow.  Any thoughts?

You want some real confusion?  I purchased a donut probe  a couple of years ago and there was a 40 degree difference from what the temp gun read.  I've tried the temp strips also.  If I cured according to the probe then every shirt would come out as ashes.  I have an 8 foot chamber mini sprint and I'm just using the temp gun and shooting for the surface to come out of the chamber at 360 to ensure the bottom layer hits the above 320 mark.  I've never had a shirt come back uncured and I have several that I wear at the house that have been through several washings from as long as 5 years ago that still look as good as when they were printed except for the shirt it self.

[Prince Art]

Not necessarily an answer to your problem, but we used a Little Buddy for several years, and cured thousands & thousands of shirts with that thing. After one large order being returned due to undercure/cracking early on, we made it our standard procedure to run everything through twice. Since the heat controller cycles on & off to maintain temp, and the panel is so short, I believe it's possible to get one shirt on the "low" end of the cycle and another on the high, which could cause inconsistencies from shirt to shirt. (I think this is what lrsbranding was getting at earlier.) Also, we flipped the shirts around on the second trip, to account for any unevenness from one side of the panel to the other, which we sometimes noted. To make sure that the ink deposit hit 320 on the bottom, we aimed for somewhere around 350-360 temp gun reading. (380 was out "danger zone," where we knew the scorching was likely.)

To test cure, we did occasional stretch tests, but not with every order. I don't recall any other orders returned due to cure other than that first one.

Hope there's some shred of help in there for you.

[jerryperrish]

I actually cut the strips in half and had one on the outside and one on the inside.

A buddy of mine let me borrow his heat press, and sure enough, that solved the problem.  Clearly not an optimal situation, but it will give me some peace of mind until I move onto bigger and better things. 

[abchung]

....Since the heat controller cycles on & off to maintain temp, and the panel is so short, I believe it's possible to get one shirt on the "low" end of the cycle and another on the high, which could cause inconsistencies from shirt to shirt. (I think this is what lrsbranding was getting at earlier.)...

We had a different cheap dryer, the cycle caused alot of problems for us as well. The heating elements can be off for over 10secs.

A buddy of mine let me borrow his heat press, and sure enough, that solved the problem.  Clearly not an optimal situation, but it will give me some peace of mind until I move onto bigger and better things. 

If you are going to use a heat press, you can reduce the power of the dryer to save electricity(Just be careful not too low that the ink is still wet). Then let the heat press do the curing.

Just remember: METALLIC INKS, double your time in the heat press.

[3Deep]

Open your gates up on your dryer and check the temp of your elements, we have a small dryer and yes a donut probe will work, just did this test with Danny and PJ from Screen Process/Easiway.  The donut probe was dead on where the temp gun was all over the place, but compare to price the temp gun gives me somewhat of a good reading, but a donut probe would really be something good to have in your shop if your having curing issues if you can bare the cost, it's like having a tension meter something I thought I would never need but finally broke down and bought one.