Stencil Remover Conentrate or Ready To Use

[Prōdigium]

The last post got me to thinking, not so much about what was said but what people prefer.

I for one would NEVER waste money on buying a RTU (Ready To Use) emulsion remover...after all, your shipping 99% water and even if your getting free shipping its wasteful in the sense of product packaging and even if your not paying shipping...fuel is still being used to deliver your product. There is a bigger picture. I still think back to the early 80's when my mother would bring home a MASSIVE box of laundry soap...and it would do at best 15 loads...all filler, the same.

But over the weekend I talked with several owners of distributors and looking back on my old sales data it seams that my view is in the minority. It wouldn't be the first time. Apparently sales of RTU takes it hands down.

So I am curious...what does your shop use, a concentrate or RTU...and why?

[Colin]

Concentrate.

But I was taught how to make the best use of the product.  Many others were not shown, or have people who are not..... ready for that level of responsibility...?

I currently use a dip tank as well, so always a concentrate.

[3Deep]

Right now I use concentrate, which I think would work best with a dip tank, but in the pass I've used crystals which work great with a spray bottle very fast acting.

[Frog]

For as long as I can remember, I've used some sort of concentrate whenever available, starting with empty gallon jugs that came with a pre-measured amount of crystals. The dry stuff ships hazardous now, so for the last few years I go for the strongest concentrates I can get (from 20:1 to 30:1)
Occasionally, I've had to settle for CCI 4:1, but as Prodigium has pointed out, who want to pay to ship water at around 10 lbs. a gallon?
I presently have a sample of ImageStar IMSPT105 which is a 35:1 concentrate.

[Croft]

switched to RTU a few years back, the product I use is applied with a spray bottle basically 6 squirts for a 23"x31" no brushing , we do 6 screens at a time and at that point the first screens emulsion is basically sheeting off.

[Prōdigium]

Looks like the preferences of the few that chimed in here does not match up with what most distributors sell.

I am gonna look into making this stuff, its truly easy as all get out and I have a friend who owns a paint factory here with huge batch mixers and the ability to package...but I would not make anything other than a concentrate.

Also I think there is a lot of confusion about concentrate ratios...some companies toss around ideas like 20:1 or 50:1 but when you look at the MSD's the ratio of active ingredients is the same or not enough different to account for double the strength. I would love to buy up a bunch of so called "concentrates" and develop a method to compare them. Seems to me the strength of what is a "ready to use" or "concentrate" is not a universally accepted ratio. What one company calls a 50:1 is only as  effective as some others 30:1 mixes. There are only 4-5 chemicals that are effective to do the job and they work all in a similar manner.

[ScreenFoo]

I would love to buy up a bunch of so called "concentrates" and develop a method to compare them.

Testing would be a great idea for anyone who takes their reclaim loop seriously, but as usual, although my results are wonderful, yours will be very likely to vary, even if your process sounds similar.  So many variables.

Also: IME most good sales folks are more than willing to throw samples at you for free if you say you're testing. 

[Prōdigium]

Also: IME most good sales folks are more than willing to throw samples at you for free if you say you're testing.

Well probably true if your a shop looking to buy a product, but I am sure they will not hand them over to me as I seek to make the stuff. I would just like to have information that shows in fact how a concentrate from other brands stacks up. Prices vary wildly and so does the actual strength if its diluted as they state on the product data. One companies 20:1 rarely matches another brands when actually diluted....I want do an apples to apples test.

[ABuffington]

We do offer reclaiming powder.  That really cuts down on shipping costs.  but for dip tanks we recommend liquid concentrate since powders can crystallize at the bottom of the tank. As you add more powder it just adds to the rock at the bottom and your solution will skyrocket in acidity to the point it is hardening the screens and not reclaming. (Thanks to Billy Christensen of Easy Way for this bit of trivia), so concentrates and RFU stay suspended and are better for dip tanks.  The powder however is great for those without dip tanks who want to save on shipping.  You can also up the strength a bit for hardened screens with either concentrate or powder.   

[Sbrem]

My first experience with emulsion remover in the early 70's was bleach! We soon started getting an RFU, then one day I was shown Sodium Metaperiodate crystals, and never went back. Nowadays, we use a liquid concentrate, I forget which one (I'm not out there much anymore)

Steve

[Prōdigium]

Not sure how much can be saved with shipping prices on powders, when UPS hazmat is included. I guess it would greatly depend on the volume compared to a liquid concentrate. While I have not made any purchases to evaluate the brands on the market for "true concentrations"...something for the future, I have found that the process will be strictly scientific by measuring the Specific Gravity at concentration and dilution with distilled water. I have not decided if I will make public the results. It will greatly depend if there are extreme differences found in the results. There is no true standard, but I think end users would appreciate the data to make informed choices.

I have however already produced several concentrations to evaluate my process and testing for precipitation. Much to my surprise I was able to formulate a liquid concentrate of 80:1 that withstood 24 hours in the freezer without any precipitation....love playing with my ultrasonic homogenizer. This might not surprise anyone who is in chemistry industry? but it implies that very small packages could be made that would dramatically reduce shipping costs, that said it would still require UPS hazmat shipping as well, but being a liquid it would dilute much easier for the end user and ensure the product provides maximum potency rather than as Allan says..."sinking to the bottom and making a rock."

Starting in about 5 weeks from now, a 20:1 solution will become available. The initial batch will be relatively small in size as it will be sold mostly for in shop evaluation. I have opted not to produce stronger mixes to avoid additional shipping expenses at this time. I will also have a powder version that will be UPS ship able without hazmat charges later this year. Customers can expect exceptionally competitive prices on these products once they come to market.

[merchmonster]

Who care how much it costs to ship my vendor pays the freight 

[Rockers]

Who care how much it costs to ship my vendor pays the freight 

Guess what the vendor will incl. in calculating the final retail price for this product.

[Sbrem]

Who care how much it costs to ship my vendor pays the freight 

Guess what the vendor will incl. in calculating the final retail price for this product.

I think his tongue was planted firmly in his cheek when he wrote that... pretty funny.

Steve

[ScreenFoo]

We do offer reclaiming powder.  That really cuts down on shipping costs.  but for dip tanks we recommend liquid concentrate since powders can crystallize at the bottom of the tank. As you add more powder it just adds to the rock at the bottom and your solution will skyrocket in acidity to the point it is hardening the screens and not reclaming. (Thanks to Billy Christensen of Easy Way for this bit of trivia), so concentrates and RFU stay suspended and are better for dip tanks.  The powder however is great for those without dip tanks who want to save on shipping.  You can also up the strength a bit for hardened screens with either concentrate or powder.

Is that just an issue with not dissolving easily, or is there some reason the crystals will re-form in a dip tank but not in a spray bottle?

Also:  Merchmonster very funny, but actually, your customers pay the freight.  Vendor just takes a cut.