help with best practices and planning for the future

[conradian]

hey folks.  thanks for all the great info.  anyway, i've been printing for others and marketing since january.  (before that, i was just printing my own stuff as a hobby)  anyway, the market that i've pursued must be underserviced, because i can't keep up.  i am really looking into a diamondback s 8/6 for their march madness sale.  i've read that i will be limited with colors but my market is under 4 colors.  more importantly, i am broke.

i do however want to plan for the future with my purchase decisions only investing in equipment that can grow or be used seamlessly with bigger equipment.  i don't really need the print area of the "s" but want to start with the auto screens. 

so a couple of questions for you lovely people:
is this a user friendly machine for someone who has never worked in a screen printing shop, let alone on an auto (basically i don't know wtf i'm doing).  is there an online resource to decrease my learning curve on these?
i see a lot of shops with all m&r.  does anyone on here have all "another brand" that you might recommend?
after the auto, what is the next natural purchase to increase efficiency i should be looking at?
what are some best practices i should start now?

i already have a pretty legit dryer and exposure unit that i picked up used a while ago.  thanks for any help guys.

[Frog]

i already have a pretty legit dryer and exposure unit that i picked up used a while ago.  thanks for any help guys.

define "pretty legit" as it could change meaning with your new direction. Whatcha' got?

[mooseman]

I know a printer who is doing quite well. He started  with a one color one station table top now runs a very nice auto.
It didn't happen overnight. By your own definition you need a 4 color press that you can buy with funds you don't have. If you want to run before you take your first step then you have your own answer 4 color press, 4 - 6 station and all  I the equipment you need to support it. Buy what you can, print you ass off until your equipment can't keep up with your orders and then o out and buy more equipment untill you can't keep up, then go out and buy even more equipment . You do this until you are struggling to manage several autos running 24 hours a day while you deal with the poblems you have with hiring good employees. The only problem with all of this is you first need a table top where you can set up your one color station press and start cranking out some shirts..............Just go print something!
mooseman
PS: A journey of the greatest distance starts when you commit to take the first step.

[conradian]

hey frog,
i have an ancient rototex 6/4,  18 aluminum screens and 50+ warped ass wood screens that i can't stand.  5'x20' lawson conveyor with jet air.  richmond vacuum light table with nuarc halide light source which i can burn up to 8 screens at a time.  larger homemade washout booth and a standard economy flash. 

mooseman, i'm definitely printing.  i just can't keep up.  my equipment and speed (experience) is definitely holding back sales.

[mooseman]

Welcome to the machine.............................
mooseman

[Frog]

Conradian, i just re-read your post and need some clarification.
You say that you are printing right now, right? "i've been printing for others and marketing since january."

You then say that you are apparently working your butt off  "the market that i've pursued must be underserviced, because i can't keep up".

But then you say that the reward for this 60 or so hours of work each week is apparently next to nothing "more importantly, i am broke."

So, now we go to two schools of thought.
1. like Mooseman'e example, one works for a while with the equipment they have, squirreling away every dollar they can for that big day, and then moving up or
2. buy new equipment on credit, (or lease)  and pray that your two months of prosperity are going to continue.


btw,  have you mastered manual printing on both lights and darks? single and multicolor? Have you considered classes? Heck, with some equipment purchases I have to assume some training is available.

What type of space do you have? Will it support the bigger equipment and incidentals?

[conradian]

hey frog,
definitely gonna be pursuing option #2: i have read on here several times regarding advice-to get an auto asap. 

haven't mastered anything (but always researching to be better) - made plenty of mistakes and somewhat corrected them

i'm in virginia.  do you know of any classes focusing on the auto in this area?  or other resources?  i believe i read somewhere that m&r offers free equipment class in illinois if you buy from them.  for some reason i can't find it on their website.  is this in fact true?

i have another business that i have a little warehouse space.  i carved out a corner for my studio with all the equipment i mentioned.  i don't have 3 phase power but i do have a little space to grow.

[Atownsend]

My advice, don't buy on anything on credit. It's a good way to get in trouble. Allow your business to grow naturally, by plowing your profits back into it. The payment will come around every month, but the orders might not. Shop rent, payroll, utilities, and supply orders, and staying on top of productiuon is more than enough stress for me.  I  would suggest saving up 5-10K and finding a decent used auto. Work your ass off and find a good hand to help you get there. I picked up our 6/8 gauntlet for about 6K. It started making money day one and its paid for. Its not a perfect press and it definitely has it's limitations, but a lot of those can be mitigated if you are handy and utilize good shop practices. Where are you located in VA? I am just outside of Richmond. If you want to come check out our auto you are more than welcome to.

[cbjamel]

Just dont forget the compressor cfm is a big deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[conradian]

thanks for the open invite atownsend.  i'm in the norfolk area, not too far.  i can afford a monthly payment (with no work in the queue) a lot easier than a used unit that i don't have the experience to troubleshoot. 

i do have a small luxury that my overhead is somewhat controlled since i carved out an existing space so my print shop doesn't have traditional rent payments.  if i had rent to think about, i would definitely build up cash reserves for equipment.

did you have experience on an auto, or did you just figure it out?

[Northland]

hey folks.  thanks for all the great info.  anyway, i've been printing for others and marketing since january.  (before that, i was just printing my own stuff as a hobby)  anyway, the market that i've pursued must be underserviced, because i can't keep up.  i am really looking into a diamondback s 8/6 for their march madness sale.  i've read that i will be limited with colors but my market is under 4 colors.  more importantly, i am broke.

i do however want to plan for the future with my purchase decisions only investing in equipment that can grow or be used seamlessly with bigger equipment.  i don't really need the print area of the "s" but want to start with the auto screens. 

I'm curious to know what your existing production speed is ??..... I'm going to ballpark the expectation for a manual press would be:
One color print   120/shirts-hr
Two color print   85/shirts-hr
Three color print 65/shirts-hr
If under-basing, maybe 20/shirts-hr less (??)

Nothing wrong with planning for an auto.... but if your typical order size is not 100+ you may be trading one problem (production speed) for another (cash flow).

Considering the time spent prepping art/making screens/folding garments/breaking down the press/invoicing /selling doesn't directly benefit from the addition of an auto..... what you may really need (short-term) is a helper

[conradian]

I'm curious to know what your existing production speed is ??..... I'm going to ballpark the expectation for a manual press would be:
One color print   120/shirts-hr
Two color print   85/shirts-hr
Three color print 65/shirts-hr
If under-basing, maybe 20/shirts-hr less (??)

Nothing wrong with planning for an auto.... but if your typical order size is not 100+ you may be trading one problem (production speed) for another (cash flow).

Considering the time spent prepping art/making screens/folding garments/breaking down the press/invoicing /selling doesn't directly benefit from the addition of an auto..... what you may really need (short-term) is a helper
[/quote]

i do have a helper.  i just did a 4 color- 400 shirts, 2 locations and couldn't get any of my smaller jobs out.  i have a couple orders of that size in the queue and one 1000pc order off of my original sales push.  to answer your question, i'm about 20% slower than your numbers.  my registration process is really long because my press is kinda jacked up so i always have to rig something up.  so at the very least, i would definitely need a better manual.  but my research shows a decent manual is a large fraction of the price of an entry level auto. 

also, people on here have written they set up even small jobs on the auto. 

[Northland]

i do have a helper.  i just did a 4 color- 400 shirts, 2 locations and couldn't get any of my smaller jobs out.  i have a couple orders of that size in the queue and one 1000pc order off of my original sales push.  to answer your question, i'm about 20% slower than your numbers.  my registration process is really long because my press is kinda jacked up so i always have to rig something up.  so at the very least, i would definitely need a better manual.  but my research shows a decent manual is a large fraction of the price of an entry level auto. 

also, people on here have written they set up even small jobs on the auto.

You would definitely benefit by having an auto.... especially if it improves your set-up times (registration).
Good luck and happy hunting.

[Atownsend]

thanks for the open invite atownsend.  i'm in the norfolk area, not too far.  i can afford a monthly payment (with no work in the queue) a lot easier than a used unit that i don't have the experience to troubleshoot. 

i do have a small luxury that my overhead is somewhat controlled since i carved out an existing space so my print shop doesn't have traditional rent payments.  if i had rent to think about, i would definitely build up cash reserves for equipment.

did you have experience on an auto, or did you just figure it out?

Norfolk isn't far at all, shoot me a PM if you are ever in the area.

Never worked on an auto before picking up our 6/8 Gauntlet. Its very basic, not hard at all to pickup if you have printed manually. There is definitely a learning curve and it will stress other areas of your shop if they are not operating @ peak. If you are getting an older press, you should be able & willing to turn a wrench pretty often. If not, and you can afford it, it may be better to find a newer model. Older presses are not a headache everyone wants to deal with, but personally, I'd rather have a minor headache every now and again than the migraine that comes from a payment. Just my personal philosophy speaking. Financing might make perfect sense for you. The reconditioned used presses from CGS come with warranties, pretty sure you can finance them. It might be a good way to stretch your dollar and get more heads for the money.

One other thing to consider, if you do not have a traditional rent payment, is to make sure you are 100% secure in your building. If you get an auto, it really is not something you want to have to move often. Renting a forklift / truck, breaking it down, hiring a tech to setup is quite expensive.

[Stinkhorn Press]

my vote - get the auto, get the loan. new or VERY WELL VETTED used.

moving a manual size load to an auto - your next point of business is to set up an FPU film positioning unit to get your setup times minimized pronto. if you get a tri-loc capable machine look up how to invert the tri-loc film position jig (DON'T USE THE TRANSFER SHEETS/PINS) - better yet - get M&R to make you an inverted one.
there are a couple of older posts (alan and others) with pics and examples.

old tri-locs are usually kicking around for $1K or less on CL and digitsmith.

you get 90% of the superior registration capability of a tuned CTS for a little bit of cash/effort and a little bit of human labor in the setup (accurately taping your films.)