Dryer Throughput

[sqslabs]

Going to be pulling the trigger on a new dryer in the very immediate future and just wanted to make sure I understand a few things correctly before doing so.  I think I can remember at one time certain dryers being listed with throughput numbers but I'm having trouble tracking anything like that down (or a way to calculate it) now. 

We're a one auto, one rarely used manual shop (without the desire to get much bigger) but have a few projects in the works that could lead to a secondary smaller auto somewhere down the road so I'd like to be ready for that if/when it happens.  Our current dryer is a split belt (dual 30") with a 10' heat chamber which I feel most of the time is overkill for our current setup, but does come in handy when we're really moving based on a roughly 1:30 retention time.  I'm now looking at a 60" belt dryer with an 8ft chamber, which is slightly smaller but not by much. We're also limited to a total of 20' in length for this purchase, so we aren't able to go too crazy with in/outfeed.

Unless there's a way to calculate the throughput based on chamber length/belt size, I'm looking to get some opinions on what people are getting by with based on their current or past setups, or any recommendations based on our shop specs & limitations.

Thanks much.

[Colin]

Will you be doing ANY waterbase jobs?

[sqslabs]

Will you be doing ANY waterbase jobs?

Yes, daily.  Sorry I didn't mention that.  Our current dryer handles WB/DC without issue and we're definitely expecting the same from our new one.

[ffokazak]

If you have slower retention time, but a wider belt you should have more capacity. (within reason of course)

[Croft]

I remember a M&R chart with dryer model and throughput listed, but can't seem to find it again. I'm also interested in what I should get to mate to a new auto

[sqslabs]

I remember a M&R chart with dryer model and throughput listed, but can't seem to find it again.

Yeah, I remember one as well.  I'd imagine it could be a bit sticky to list numbers like that with so many many variables involved, but I'd be interested to know the calculations that went into reaching those ballpark or max numbers, whichever they were.

[ZooCity]

Always go bigger than you need on the dryer, especially if you run WB/DC/HSA.  Get the most airflow available, widest belt you can afford, longest chamber you can fit in the space. 

We run an 8-16-8 Sprint 2000 HO with a 60" belt.  It does keep up with 2 autos (1 old and 1 newer) doing wb/dc but becomes a bit of a tetris game with full length prints.   I wouldn't run less than 8' of out feed here as your catchers might tend to hot stack and box which can be bad news in some cases with coating type inks.  A cooling chamber would be a good move and something I think should be built into all dryers. 

Look at belt width/sq inch available, speed required to hit 1-1:30 retention, largest image area you print and do the math.  It's all about that retention time.  You can only reduce retention time with more heat and more airflow.   Some will tell you that you can run a shorter retention with fixers, etc. and that's true but best cure and greatest amount of flexibility in your inks comes from correct retention time/airflow. 

If I had 20' available I'd probably go 72"w belt and 4-12-4, maybe 4-10-6 depending.  A super wide belt may allow for putting a press on both sides and one at the "point" of the dryer if your space allows. 

[jsheridan]

60" sprint 2000 with and extra drone should fit in there just fine.

[sqslabs]

Thanks for the responses guys..

I wouldn't run less than 8' of out feed here as your catchers might tend to hot stack and box which can be bad news in some cases with coating type inks. 

When you have a minute can you elaborate on this?  I always figured outfeed length didn't matter that much (besides to the catchers fingers) but this is the second time recently I've heard about stacking hot being a bad thing.  We've never had much of an outfeed on our dryers (longest being our current at 5') and have only had ghosting issues once in 8 years, but it seems like I may be missing something else in my understanding on what makes cool down important.

Thanks man.

[Frog]

Thanks for the responses guys..

I wouldn't run less than 8' of out feed here as your catchers might tend to hot stack and box which can be bad news in some cases with coating type inks. 

When you have a minute can you elaborate on this?  I always figured outfeed length didn't matter that much (besides to the catchers fingers) but this is the second time recently I've heard about stacking hot being a bad thing.  We've never had much of an outfeed on our dryers (longest being our current at 5') and have only had ghosting issues once in 8 years, but it seems like I may be missing something else in my understanding on what makes cool down important.

Thanks man.

I can say from experience that the value of outfeed length can be overlooked until a problem pops up. Problem I had some years back was plastisol ink, especially thick athletic prints, sticking to themselves and each other as they fell into the box. I solved it with a fan, but, a couple of more feet there would have only helped.

[jvanick]

helps with poly prints too... as they cool down before they get hot stacked... hot stacking can cause sublimation to occur due to the garment staying hot too long.

[ZooCity]

What these guys said. 

Good performance/low cure/low bleed inks tend to be tacky as all get out and will stick to themselves or whatever they touch.

Standard coating inks like plastisol, hsa, etc.  are going to build up a lot of heat running down at the same chamber times as wb/dc.  If you are clipping along with two presses your catchers are going to wind up stacking hot and high which is how problems happen- essentially heat pressing the shirts in the middle of the stack.  In our busiest times I'm out there with a temp gun checking stacks of shirts being staged for post press.  I get a little wigged out seeing temps over 95˚ in the middle of a stack and I've seen temps way higher than that. 

I really think all dryers, especially gas dryers, should have a 2' chamber at the back to cool/recapture waste heat.  It would allow for shorter outfeed and significantly reduced heat in the shop.  Most of the heat issues we face here are from hot shirts radiating. 

[sqslabs]

Thanks for the responses.  I'm familiar with most of these issues, but just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything big that I wasn't aware of. 

Hoping to close a deal one way or another by tomorrow, fingers crossed.  We're currently running pre-flashed prints through a 2-4-2 with a 24" belt and although it has saved our a$$, its getting old pretty fast.  Thanks again to everyone in both threads and via PM for the advice, it's really helped with the decision making process.

[Steve Harpold]

Hey,

Dryer capacity is difficult to calculate as the many variable make it tough to sort out reality:
 
The Spreadsheet you are looking for is attached as an .XLS.
I understand we all have opinions on how fast retention speeds can be. I filled the sheet out based on data provided by ink suppliers as well as multitudes of testing. However instead of debating the numbers I posted the sheet and made it editable.  Plug your numbers in as you see fit! (I included a Fire Fly as a comparable for my own benefit)

Spreadsheet attached (CapForTSb.xlsx) - Edit, I could not post the .xls as it was not allowed.  If you want the sheet as a .xls send me a message.   


Extras: Interesting data, try the exercise and see what you come up with!
 
Scheduling 1.png - Quick look at the difficulties of scheduling that have arisen due to larger range of materials and ink types.
Scheduling 2.png - Quick look at the concept using a Fire Fly system or multiple conventional system, instead of a single large dryer
ShirtsOnAbelt.png - Quick look at how to determine how many rows of shirts you will get and the difficulties of a split belt system.

[Gilligan]

Hey Mr. Steve... just zip up the xls file and then you can attach it!