Wilflex PC mixing ink Newb

[Stinkhorn Press]

we're going to need to make the move to mixing our colors SOON.

we like wilflex, and the PC system seems to get good reviews mostly, probably use that. Can someone walk me through the process, what I need to buy, what the basic stumbling blocks are for going from colors straight out of the bucket to a mix system? (or, you know, reasons not to).

we're getting to a point that 2 or three main customers want 6-7 color prints, small runs and 2-3 colors that they want PMS matched that aren't out of the bucket what we have on the shelf. we're mixing 2-10 times a week anyway, probably better to do it properly and repeatably with a system.

what can I NOT buy immediately? what I will i need more than I think of?

[jvanick]

you'll need the pigments + whatever base you choose to use.  The Wilflex "Amazing Base" is good, but if you want a truly stellar printing ink, you should get Synergy NexGen base from Joe Clarke.  http://synergyinks.com

you'll also want some quart size cups (we use the 'choice' ones from webstaurant.com)

Wilflex does offer a starter kit.. you can get it from your wilflex distributor of choice... we use Nazdar.

you also will need a good scale that goes to .01g accuracy.

here is an in-expensive one that works good:
https://www.amazon.com/My-Weigh-iBalance-Table-Precision/dp/B004C3EK02/ref=sr_1_1?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1474043800&sr=8-1&keywords=my+weigh+1000g+x+0.01

using the mixing software is easy (free download from Wifllex... note it only runs on PC's (or mac's with Parallels installed))

the only major mixing notes:

if you mix directly according to the formula that comes up, you'll be fine every time.  If you are trying to alter the amount of base to gain or lose opacity, you'll want to make sure you stay within the recommended limits.  If you go outside those limits you can make an ink that will never cure.


we've been a happy user of the PC system for 3+ years now... no complaints, and it has never let us down.  We've had some bad mixes that didn't match but those were 99% user error, and a few blue mixes that didn't look right ended up being an issue at wilflex which they corrected.  Steve Hedge and Ho Nyguen are great support people at wilflex too, any questions (no matter how dumb) get answered fast and accurately (techserviceswilflex@polyone.com)

[Printficient]

What has been said.  I am happy to train you on all the possibilities of the system.  The recycle function is very good.  I second the Synergy ink comment.

[Stinkhorn Press]

you'll need the pigments
...
you'll also want some quart size cups (we use the 'choice' ones from webstaurant.com)
...
you also will need a good scale that goes to .01g accuracy.

Seems pretty straightforward. We are Joe Clarke converts, his base will certainly be tried first.

Do you have a direct link to those cups you're talking about? we have some super nice quart containers but they are hella pricy - but most of the cheaper stuff we've found is TOO shitty to use...

We have a scale already as we mix (a minimal amount) of Matsui WB/discharge successfully.
the two questions I have with that are - is it like Matsui where you're literally trying to get 1 small drip versus a large drip to get the mix right? and what happens when you need waaaaay more than a quart of a color? the scale that can measure .01g max out at a fairly small total amount mixed...

What has been said.  I am happy to train you on all the possibilities of the system.  The recycle function is very good.  I second the Synergy ink comment.

i may give you a call when I'm closer to needing to get it done - pretty sure i have your contact info in an email/pm floating around...

[ZooCity]

Have ran the Epic PC system for years and very happy here. 

I like the Nexgen base as well but it doesn't play well with the PC Extra White and will become extremely runny so we're holding with Amazing base. 

Hunt down a Sartorious scale that works with IMS 3.0, it's rad to have it hooked up for mixing.   You can find good used deals on these scales but I would recommend shelling out for the hi-res model that reads 100ths of a gram.  One of the major benefits of in-house PC mixing is the ability to make that 1/2 quart of the weird performance ink color you need but you need to be pretty accurate on the mix to make those small quantity batches consistently.  For full quarts and up 10ths of a gram is fine. 

We use the Superfos clear vaporlock quarts for all inks here.

[Stinkhorn Press]

anyone have thoughts on Epic PC vs Epic PC Equalizer?
my sales guy says Equalizer is basically harder to screw up, the pigments can't be overloaded. that straight PC is a bit more robust in terms of how it plays with the different bases, but it can be easy to not have enough pigment (or too much) and make the ink uncurable.
anyone else?

we use matsui's pms matching for discharge, i figure if we can handle that we can handle the complexity/measuring correct needs of any plastisol system.

[Printficient]

That is correct.  The equalizers take away a small modicum of control.  They have a "Set" pigment load.  The regular PCs give you the ability to set the pigment load of an ink (within tolerances).

[Rockers]

anyone have thoughts on Epic PC vs Epic PC Equalizer?
my sales guy says Equalizer is basically harder to screw up, the pigments can't be overloaded. that straight PC is a bit more robust in terms of how it plays with the different bases, but it can be easy to not have enough pigment (or too much) and make the ink uncurable.
anyone else?

we use matsui's pms matching for discharge, i figure if we can handle that we can handle the complexity/measuring correct needs of any plastisol system.

My guess is if you stick to the formulas provided by the WIlflex IMS then you won`t have a problem with pigment overload. And in terms of the bases, their bases are just fine, no need to go for a different manufacturers base.

[dirkdiggler]

equilizers here and we like that they are curable and easy to use for newbies, but we may be switching to RIO soon.  Got a kit on the way.

[Stinkhorn Press]

equilizers here and we like that they are curable and easy to use for newbies, but we may be switching to RIO soon.  Got a kit on the way.

to what end, switching to rio?

[Stinkhorn Press]

UPDATE
have pc starter kit.

mixing three pantones
354 C spot on
7424 C spot on

and

2572 C pinkish purple is coming out not right at all. mixing up much closer to 2645 C light violet.

is this unusual? this is my first mixing of this system. should I be expecting to chase some colors and eyeball it back to spec?

[jvanick]

UPDATE
have pc starter kit.

mixing three pantones
354 C spot on
7424 C spot on

and

2572 C pinkish purple is coming out not right at all. mixing up much closer to 2645 C light violet.

is this unusual? this is my first mixing of this system. should I be expecting to chase some colors and eyeball it back to spec?

should be very close out of the software... first, make sure you used the correct pigments...  sometimes it's easy to mistake blue for marine blue for example.

if you're sure you did the right mix... then hit up techserviceswilflex@polyone.com and ask them to check the formula... it could be wrong in the software.

[Stinkhorn Press]

wow thanks!
they are great. 2 hours later and an updated formula.

i assume these updated formulas get pushed out to the software with the next update?
edit: they do. the next day. so says Wilflex's Steve. so there you are.

[RICK STEFANICK]

equilizers here and we like that they are curable and easy to use for newbies, but we may be switching to RIO soon.  Got a kit on the way.

Please post some feedback on the RIO. we currently do run Quick white and have some Sprint. Terri from nazdar was in yesterday and has my attention on this RIO system. Currenty we use the Rutland  M3 system but with the older m/r's printability can be a challenge with some colors so its time to make a change. Thanks

[ZooCity]

Curious as to why Rio or what is different about it from the MX system.